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by codemog 15 days ago
I’m trying to be charitable but your comment reads as “China bad” propaganda to me. Who cares that DeepSeek and Z.ai are Chinese companies?
6 comments

It doesn't matter until it does. If the chinese government decides that open weight model releases are no longer allowed, that's a lot of companies that can't release new models. Same with the US government, etc. Having diversity is important.
However unlike the US models, China banning the release of new models would not break existing ones. Betting on US models only can get you locked out in just a few hours.
No, Open weights US models would not break as well - this isn't related to China or USA, it's about Open Weights and the fact that you can download the models.
It's a similar problem the human DNA solved by telling our teenage selves that our parents are dumb and we needed to move to a new tribe. Genetic diversity, but a digital equivalent.
China’s got absolute control over its outputs. For America to have any guarantees around long-term availability of OW models, they need domestic production.

FWIW this is the same logic for China’s need for their own OW models

LLMs aren't just for coding and math. Many people understand the world through LLMs, even when it comes to philosophy and politics.

If you understand the world through a Chinese LLM, you are seeing it through a biased lens stemming from biased training data.

(Also, in that way, having all major LLMs developed by the US carries a risk too. We need more diversity than just the viewpoints of the US or China.)

All 6 UN languages should have their own dedicated LLM at the very least: American for English, Chinese for Chinese, LATAMgpt for Spanish, Russia has their own, Mistral for French, the Arabs don't have one yet I think, then there's sarvam for India and South Korea's sovereign models like SK telecom's
I think practically every government will want to put restrictions on private companies building models.

Frankly the EU and the US will practically be less involved and have more pushback from the public in this than China. I think that’s less “China bad” than recognizing that China is a more authoritarian state and has far more proclivity to interfere than western states.

Maybe I’m wrong? What does deep seek say about Tiananmen square in 1989?

https://chat.deepseek.com/share/uf8jih4q95lbq3s8t2

This is what Deepseek replied when I asked it with a burner account. Claims it doesn't have it in its training data... sure.

Be interesting to see if it's possible to jailbreak and have it talk about it.
I am sure it can be but like it does prove the point of state interference in what the LLM is allowed to say/do in this case.
Ask an American model about the Epstein files and trump's involvement of them. Or about Israel committing genocide in Palestine.

Every model will have their own bias. Freedom is relative and American freedom is not the only form of freedom. China bad or China authoritarian and thus not free is a result of the red scare

Here is what Sonnet says on genocide:

"Surveys of genocide scholars (e.g., one by the journal Journal of Genocide Research contributors) show meaningful disagreement, though a visible and growing share of specialists in genocide studies specifically have concluded the term applies or is defensible — more so than international law scholars generally, who tend to be more cautious about the intent requirement."

You can be of the opinion that this shows bias, but it's a far cry from the Chinese censorship.

Clichés like "freedom is relative" are not serious arguments. You can't genuinely argue that the US, for all its problems, is less free than China. Words have meaning.

E.g. looking at freedom house index you can disagree on the precise score or how different aspects are weighed, but you can't argue with the underlying facts in the country reports

https://freedomhouse.org/country/scores

You asked about genocide in general. Not Israeli genocide. Are you astroturfing? No one can make an omission that obvious

You can't genuinely argue that the US, for all its problems, is less free than China

This is how Americans convince themselves they are at the top of the world when they are not. No one outside of Europe and the US cares about the US anymore. They buy Chinese products and do business with Chinese businesses instead, right now. Worldwide, China is seen more positively than the US specially in global south countries. The exceptions of course are Europe and The US, the cold war first world countries of course.

freedom house index

This is obvious American bias. Astroturfing.

Try selling SaaS for finance (think Private Equity/Wall St type customers) that is powered by a Chinese model. See how far you get.
you live under a rock or what?