[wredcoll]

That did occasionally happen but I don't think it was the majority case by any means.

That being said, if we're talking about the lord owning the mill you labor at, how is that different than tesla owning the car factory you work at?

[inigyou]

It isn't, and that's why people speak about technofeudalism?

[sebastiennight]

Tesla does not, AFAICT, also own the land you live on. They pay you in fiat currency that can be exchanged for other goods sold by any provider.

A better comparison to support your "capitalism = feudalism" argument would actually be the era of company stores and truck wages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteen_Tons

[wredcoll]

I agree about the company stores thing, but it's pretty common (right now in america) for someone to work at a factory, that they do not own, and live in a house, that they also do not own.

The distinction between that and some kind of stereotypical medieval serf living on a farm he was granted by a lord and producing crops that he uses to pay his rents and so forth seems somewhat minor.

Yes in general a modern american has more government enforced rights and protections, but at the end of the day a lot of rights aren't really all that relevant if you can't afford them in the first place.

Musk and I both have the right to build a factory to produce electric cars, but one of us is going to have a much harder time exercising that right.

(Not to say that we aren't living in a better world, we absolutely are, I would never trade places with basically anyone from "the past", but the point isn't that things aren't as bad as they used to be, the point is how do we improve what we have today)

[idiotsecant]

I understand that you think that, but you're wrong according to pretty much every historical source.

If you don't understand the difference between a feudal lord an Elon musk I'm not sure I can help you. We live in a world where individual rights are orders of magnitude more significant that those of a feudal serf.

[wredcoll]

I think you might need to brush up on your historical studies. There's no such thing as a generic "feudal serf" that applied across multiple cultures and times.

People who might qualify for the label "serf" had all sorts of differing rights and responsibilities and cultures across the literally thousands of years of history we have access to, anything from slaves in all but name to people who had (the equivalent of) bills of rights and legal protections for things they owned and produced and what duties and obligations they had were enforced by contracts laws and judges.

Musk and I both have "the right" to build a factory to produce electric cars for sale, but one of us is going to have a considerably easier time exercising that right.

It's illegal for both Steve Jobs and I to to park in a handicapped space, but when he gets a fine for doing so, it doesn't affect him in the slightest and he (used) his power to avoid suffering from any consequences, whereas I am meaningfully impacted by the punishment.

“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”

Are things better "now" than "then"? Yes, of course. I wouldn't trade places with basically anyone from more than 100 years ago. But that's irrelevant to the point that people like Musk and the thousands of similar but less famous people have too much power and that power is used to corrode our society.

Living in a house you rent and working at someone else's factory has a number of downsides. It's not all bad, but it's still worth actually considering what is good and what is bad so we can improve things.