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by mtoner23 17 days ago
Hopefully Germany doesn't ban geothermal like they did with nuclear and fracking
4 comments

Putting nuclear and fracking on the same level is wild.
Why? Nuclear has extremely serious, but very rare accidents, while fracking has less serious (as in, fewer people affected) accidents more frequently. I would say if you even it out, they're comparable...
Putting nuclear and fracking next to each other is also wild. Geographically.
Combining them is even more "fun", see also:

"Nuclear Fracking: Repeatedly Nuking Yourself for Commercial Reasons" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsu0lHkOIFg

Haha that's a good one, shaky foundation.
Please refrain from putting these 2 in the same bucket. Fracking does lots of localized and non-local pollution. Nuclear is contained and way safer for humans.
> Nuclear is contained and way safer for humans.

One could argue it is nominally safe.

> Nuclear is contained

Except when it de-contains itself.

I would put all the “nuke is safe” ppl in an island alongside the reactor and go back every 100 years to check if they went Atlantis or not yet…

I get that it’s a a form of clean energy and we kind of need that in the EU but a remote, “protected”, isolated location would be my first choice.

Sure? With the continual modern improvements and safety engineering and education, I'll live right at the nuke if you'd like.

Every plant doesn't operate in a silo (well, it does in a physical sense), the operating knowledge and expertise is shared far and wide to help keep another Three Mile Island or another Fukushima from happening. I enjoy watching the training in action from the control room simulators.[1]

Just let me hunker down in the FLEX shelter when the time comes.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuLuQvxJTpQ, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXfuuWfyP6Y is nice and soothing.

Fracking is not like nuclear
But they were cancelled for similar reasons based on fears fueled by Russian propaganda.
So the Fukushima disaster and US polluted ground water are Russian propaganda for you?
Cumulative radioactivity emitted by German coal as a result of the ban on nuclear is likely higher than the amount of radioactivity spread by the Fukushima disaster. We can also add lung issues and other pollution of the environment caused by soot.
Just 6.5% of German electricity was generated through coal last year.

By contrast Poland was ~90% for years and only just slipped below 50%.

If I had to guess why Poland never got any criticism for that while Germany was routinely pilloried by certain flavors of propaganda I would hypothesize that it was because Poland weren't humiliating the nuclear industry by swapping them with solar panels and wind turbines at 1/5th the price.

You forgot 14.8% electricity was made by brown coal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignite

Solar panels and wind turbines are useful, but don't provide the base power a network needs to be stable, and on-demand capacity to give some flexibility. Ironically, fossil fuel electricity plants have to be built as part of renewables projects to make them viable.

This is why after having spent a trillion of euros in renewables, Germany still has the highest cost of electricity and still relies on French nuclear to stabilize their network. Same goes with Spain, that had a major blackout caused by a renewable shortfall.

That number is clearly wrong. The german term "Kohle" includes the english "coal" (Steinkohle) and "lignite" (Braunkohle). The real number is >20%.

German: https://strom-report.com/strommix/

English: https://strom-report.com/electricity-mix-germany/

The Fukushima where there has been one death attributed to radiation exposure (lung cancer that happened years later)? And 20,000 people died as a result of the earthquake and tsunami?
> the Fukushima disaster

Germany doesn't experience magnitude 7+ earthquakes on the regular... or at all for that matter. It 100% is manufactured fears

In the mean time, we've sponsored the Russian war of aggression, flooding Europe with violence that led to the death of over a hundred thousand, disabled half a million, displaced 10 million, and destroyed houses and infrastructure worth hundreds of billions.
The inherrent dangers of nuclear energy stem from flawed actors admimistrating something which carries manageable and often avoidable risks.

Fracking as a process carries inherrent unavoidable risk.

What about the >100.000 Ukrainians killed with bombs and bullets paid for by German energy policy?
Note that I won't even write answers to all the other commenters telling me that nuclear power plants are great (they are not). I will answer you because my reply was about your comment on Russian propaganda:

1. Angela Merkel and her conservative/center coalition shut down the NPPs as a direct response to the Fukushima disaster. The NPPs in Germany were never really important (something like 10% of electricity IIRC).

2. No one in Germany even knew about fracking until we learned that communities in the US now had poisoned ground water because of it. The whole thing was instantly dead forever in Germany. Yes of course the same idiots who want NPPs back also say we should do fracking, but I don't think any of that will ever happen.

So I did not want to discuss whether these decisions were wrong or not, just wanted to point out that making Russian propaganda the reason for this is a far stretch.

Regarding your point about German/European money paying for Russian bombs: You are absolutely right and it is shameful. We should have pulled the plug on Russia 2014. Do note though that Germany had Russian fossils since like the 70`s as part of ensuring peace and transformation through trade, which yes - did not work out so well in the end.

So at least we can agree that Germany’s reliance on Russian gas has been far deadlier than all nuclear and fracking accidents combined.

Regarding your arguments:

ad 1: This happened only because public opinion had been shaped by the movements mentioned in my previous comment for the last 40 to 50 years. Otherwise, how would you explain the fact that Fukushima did not have the same effect on policy or public opinion in any of the roughly 30 other countries using nuclear power — not even in Japan? Are Germans that much more intelligent than the French, Japanese, or Finns?

ad 2: That is somewhat ironic, considering that fracking has been taking place in Germany since the 1960s.

You should stop relying on such low-resolution thinking when discussing a complex issue like German energy policy.

That still doesn't make them comparable
technically speaking, geothermal is in a way also a form of nuclear energy.