[rmunn]

Why does Britain have any say in the people who live in, say, Liverpool? Because that's historically been British territory. So what's the difference? Only real difference I can see is length of history (a few hundred years vs. nearly a thousand years). But as far as I'm concerned, a few hundred years vs. nearly a thousand years doesn't make much difference. I'd argue that any territory that has belonged to country X for longer than all of its inhabitants have been alive has a pretty fair claim to be historical territory of country X, and should continue being part of country X unless there's a very good reason otherwise. (Such as a valid treaty, a clear referendum, and so on).

It gets all complicated and messy when war is involved, of course. I'm talking about peaceful transfers of ownership here.

[unkeen]

So you’re suggesting amnesia and ignoring the fact that Gibraltar wasn’t a blank spot on the map before it was annexed by the British. I think that’s a very one-sided view.

[rmunn]

Pretty much nowhere was a blank spot on the map before the current inhabitants took it over from the previous ones. Nor was it a blank spot when the previous inhabitants took it over from the ones who came before them. Many places in the world have changed hands dozens of times over the years, belonging first to the Babylonian Empire, then to the Medes and the Persians, then to the Romans, then... and so on, and so on. If you start counting past conquest as needing to be kept track of, you quickly end up in a maze of twisty little battles, all different. Where do you draw the line and say "Okay, well, the Romans count as being the original owners, but not the Medes or the Persians?"

My opinion is that what your distant ancestors did should not be held against you — go far enough back and pretty much everyone has some ancestors who were good people, and some who did flat-out evil things — and that what happened 200 years ago is not a good argument for overturning the status quo. Some exceptions could apply, but "my ancestors took this land by force X number of years ago" is true of just about everyone, everywhere. The only sane thing to do is to hold the past lightly and consider what is the right thing for the current inhabitants today.

[unkeen]

This is all true. Yet, all I’m hearing is "Water under the bridge! Annexion is just a thing humans do, get over it." and I think that’s too easy to say when you aren’t, for example, of African heritage. I simply believe that there are some historical events that are more inhumane (for the lack of a better word) than others. Where would you draw the line of acceptance if your country were to invaded, traded, or otherwise knocked down under the power of a foreign force? As I stated before: Was it a true (political, economical, defensive, ...) need for Britain to claim Gibraltar or was it great power politics aka greed disguised as such need?

[rmunn]

What you said was "why should Britain have any say in these matters?"; the question of "Did Britain have a need to claim Gibraltar back when?" is a different question entirely, which I am not qualified to answer, having never studied Gibraltar's history. I have studied a little, just a little, of African history, though — and I don't think you would have brought it up as an example if you knew much about it. Because warfare between different nations/tribes/empires/whatever (the terms have been different at various times) was a constant factor. To the point that for some countries, their lives were actually improved by being occupied by a foreign invader. Not all, and certainly not if the foreign invader was Belgium. (Goodness gracious, the Belgian occupation of Congo was a neverending parade of horribles).

But Africa is such a huge continent, with such a variety of countries (each with their own complicated history) that pretty much any generality you can make about Africa is going to be wrong about large portions of the continent, and about large portions of the history of its various countries. It's perhaps not such a good example to talk about an entire complex continent for a simple point, so I should stop rambling on about it. (But I do recommend finding a book about the empire of Aksum sometime. It's fascinating).