[ericmay]

You can't make an informed decision on it unless you do your own research and analyze an individual stock. Then it's up to you to decide if it's worth investing in. This is true for any investment. Just because you think something is bullshit doesn't mean it is. Maybe you're just wrong. Buy the security or don't.

[ceejayoz]

> You can't make an informed decision on it unless you do your own research…

Most retail investors suffer from significant information asymmetry. We have regulations, in part, to mitigate this fact.

> Just because you think something is bullshit doesn't mean it is.

A point you yourself might remember when arguing on the internet.

[ericmay]

> Most retail investors suffer from significant information asymmetry. We have regulations, in part, to mitigate this fact.

I don't disagree - however that's a separate point from the OP's it's all a scam and pump-and-dump sentiments and doesn't detract from any point I've made.

> A point you yourself might remember when arguing on the internet.

I know it feels great to write things like this but I don't care - my point stands alone and it's only applicable to you and what you wrote regarding valuations.

[ceejayoz]

A pump and dump is information asymmetry writ large. It’s how it works!

A pump and dump scam doesn’t care if valuation goes down as long as they can exit profitably.

[ericmay]

Then just don't buy the pump-and-dump and stick to ETFs.

Already explained things like lockup periods. Investment firms marketing the IPO also do. not. want. IPO prices to crater after the IPO. It makes them look bad, it harms their business, investors will avoid shops that loop them in on what turn out to be obvious scams or whatever. But even if they don't, who cares? They (I) are sophisticated investors. If I make a bad investment I'm an adult with means and I can live with the consequences.

Why didn't I buy the SpaceX IPO? Because I think it's a crappy investment! They tried to pump-and-dump but they sure couldn't catch me. See how easy it is?

[ceejayoz]

> Then just don't buy the pump-and-dump…

I feel like you're unclear on what information asymmetry means.

This is "just don't get murdered!" style advice.

> Why didn't I buy the SpaceX IPO? Because I think it's a crappy investment! They tried to pump-and-dump but they sure couldn't catch me. See how easy it is?

The naïve retail investors you suggest should buy index funds will be exposed to SpaceX and the other AI companies through them, no?

[ericmay]

> The naïve retail investors you suggest should buy index funds will be exposed to SpaceX and the other AI companies through them, no?

You're exposed to any company that hits the public market, depending on which ETF you buy. Could be the S&P 500 or a Total Market Index or some mix of those two plus international ETFs. You name it. Of course that's the downside of the ETF, but it's also the upside because the assumption is you can't pick winners and losers in the market so you buy them all.

I think, for example, Microsoft is a terrible investment because almost all of their products suck ass. I have shares though through an ETF and that's the price I pay because while I think it's a terrible investment I could be wrong. Just like you can be wrong about SpaceX.

Your point of contention here really just doesn't make a lot of sense.

You're declaring IPOs like SpaceX to be pump-and-dumps but not providing your own research and valuation model, and then at the same time complaining that retail investors who aren't doing their own research are going against industry advice and buying those IPOs, while also complaining that big banks shop IPO deals (as they have done for a century) to their high net worth clients who are... responsible investors who are making sophisticated decisions? And of course you're ignoring the fact that in order to offload bags one has to find someone to offload those bags to, there are lockup periods, due diligence, and other mechanisms in place to prevent or mitigate the scenario you are describing because it is bad business and you can be sued for doing shady things.

And you know what, maybe you're just wrong about SpaceX[1] and because the retail investors have shares due to the ETF they make more money than they otherwise would. In other words, calling something a pump-and-dump is just like, your opinion.

[1] I have no shares in SpaceX and don't care much about the company one way or the other besides being generally positive on space technology and exploration. I think Elon Musk is a loser, and I also don't own any direct shares in Tesla.