[jandrewrogers]

The widespread existence of secondary markets for SNAP benefits, which convert subsidized food for poor people into cash, carries this implication. This is pretty normal in some poor communities and that cash is commonly diverted to various vices. Some malnutrition is a consequence of this. Adding friction to the conversion of welfare benefits to cash is a feature.

You can't force poor people to spend cash on proper nutrition and a minority of them don't. It isn't a moral judgement but an observable fact. A lot of policies around welfare are targeted at trying to prevent this minority from slowly killing themselves in public.

[rubyn00bie]

> The widespread existence of secondary markets for SNAP benefits, which convert subsidized food for poor people into cash, carries this implication.

I think “widespread secondary markets” is carrying a lot of implications… yes, people do sell food stamps for cash, and yes it technically happens over a large area (the US) but it’s far from a significant problem within the population that uses food stamps. Most estimates I’ve seen range between 2-5% and they all tend to overestimate (like it literally says that in their methodology).

I think it’s also bizarre to assume they’re trying to kill themselves by doing so, and thereby imply the proceeds are for things like drugs or alcohol. FWIW—- I’ve know folks who sold their excess food stamps, to help pay for their cell phone or utility bills. I’ve know folks who buy them because they’re poor and they are wholly unable to get the caloric needs with their monthly allocation. And yes, I’ve also seen some folks who are likely selling them to buy drugs or alcohol… my point is it’s naive to assume it’s always for self-harm.

If anything, considering how cheap food stamps are as a program for the federal budget— we could absolutely make food free for literally everyone in the US. That would absolutely curb the secondary markets[1] as there would no longer be a market.

[1] I suppose some sort of export of shelf stable food to other countries would pop up, but that requires an international logistics network and is easier to prosecute and fight than an individual outside a grocery store.

[jandrewrogers]

No one implied the intent was self-harm. The observation is that was the manifest result.

I’ve lived in serious poverty in many parts of the US, more than most people imagine exists. I’m not hypothesizing, I have first-hand knowledge. The evidence is so overwhelming that I shouldn’t have to play that card. It is disappointing the extent to which people will deny this reality for ideological reasons against all evidence.

Poverty is a mixed bag but the policies there, as with everywhere else, are defined by the worst cases. A significant subset of people in poverty cannot be trusted with their own welfare. That is a fact.

[fragmede]

It still burns me if I stop and think about it when I'm paying taxes so someone can spend their EBT at Whole Foods and I'm shopping at Trader Joe's though.I don't know how to reconcile that with the fact that I don't want people to go hungry so I'm happy to pay my taxes and have it go towards EBT.

[cassianoleal]

> You can't force poor people to spend cash on proper nutrition and a minority of them don't.

Sure on a large enough cohort, there will always be all kinds of behaviours. This is true, as you have observed yourself, regardless of whether the benefit is paid in cash or food.