[phil42]

Any good outliner alternatives out there?

I originally came from Roam and was really happy to find an offline alternative in Logseq. I've since moved to Obsidian, though. Obsidian works well, but I still feel like my brain works best with the outliner-style workflow that Roam and Logseq offer.

I have heard of https://outl.app/ but when I tried it out, it still seemed in a very early stage (and heavily vibe-coded, which I also don't enjoy).

[xienze]

It's not exactly like logseq but I really like SilverBullet (https://silverbullet.md/). It's self-hostable and really hackable (plugins, dynamic categorization via embedding custom queries, etc.). Browsers are the first class platform. I really dislike how logseq/Obsidian etc. try to push you towards local fat clients or web clients that only use browser local storage. I _want_ everything stored on a central server so I can just pick up on any device without having to sync.

[ezst]

It can be both: I love being able to use Trilium "as a website" to check out my notes on other's (e.g. employer's) devices, and as a local first/fully offline/totally synced app during e.g. a flight trip or in case of an outage. The two just coexist and sync like a mesh.

https://triliumnotes.org/

[flkiwi]

Same. And it's been fascinating to watch the genuine gap between people in our camp and people who really, really want "local-first" (which, to me, translates to inconvenience and otherwise unnecessary sync requirements).

[chrisweekly]

Obsidian's "Outliner" plugin is really pretty good. Esp. assuming "Editing view" and "Live Preview" editing mode, (which combine for WYSIWYG).

I appreciate the standard, intuitive keyboard shortcuts for creating/removing bullets, indenting/outdenting, moving lines up or down, etc.

Also, you can use the built-in syntax for block references to kinda-sorta recreate the Roam block-based setup.

[packetlost]

I've found it lacking, especially with kinda buggy interaction with the vim keybindings.

Obsidian's data model, a huge selling point to some, really hinders it too. Logseq's new db format let's you treat any block as a page, metadata and all which can be super helpful.

[chrisweekly]

I'll stick with my portable local-filesystem markdown over any db format (let alone with Obsidian's Coreview and Dataview plugins, and Bases, for db-like querying).

[packetlost]

And more power to you. I find the SQLite database of plain-text to be a worthwhile tradeoff to grow past the limitations of plain markdown files.

[chrisweekly]

Right on. I'm glad there are options. :)

[wosk]

You might want to try this new logseq though, if the devs have not burned all your goodwill. You can use it with a markdown mirror (it's a feature under settings) so you keep you same notes in markdown as well.

It's open-source, really well designed, local, you can even self-host sync...

But: the devs make questionable decisions that makes the development roadmap quite bumpy. It should ease up.

[AbstractH24]

The devs have burned enough goodwill to be a “early adopter” of sorts, but not enough for me to be later on the adoption curve

So I hope others dip their toe in it builds momentumn

[dogmayor]

Take a look at Kosshi. I like it so far.

https://kosshi.app/

[campak]

Been creating an open source Workflowy alternative called Dotflowy and it’s available for testing now

https://app.dotflowy.com

Invite code: jesus-saves

Think Workflowy outliner meets plugin extensibility of Obsidian, meets the beauty of Linear, meets the markdown feel of Bear notes

[yes_but_no]

bike, if you are on macos https://www.hogbaysoftware.com/bike/

[vmesel]

outl contributor here! we are early stage still, but we’ve been advancing it pretty quickly.

we now have the local P2P sync that enables you to sync all notes through all of your devices and many more features to come

[Tomte]

Workflowy.

[phil42]

That's what I started with originally, but it's not offline and stores all data on their servers. Something like Workflowy but offline or self-hosted would be brilliant.

[shaism]

I created a version for personal use a month ago.

https://github.com/SharifIsmail/tendril

Feel free to give it a try. Agents can also directly interact with it.

[karencarits]

Maybe someone can put Claude Fable on it

[AbstractH24]

So, Obsidian?

[AbstractH24]

Workflowy's never-ending delays for an API make Logseq look fast.

Truth is, it's been nearly a decade since I used Workflowy and nothing has ever been as good. But the inability to email notes to it or otherwise push data to it from other sources was such a deal breaker. Particularly as mobile became a larger and larger part of my life.

Then there was Moo.do, the next best infinite-outline tool I could find. Their rebrand as Legend was strange, made it hard to find the app, and, from an SEO perspective, was an odd choice.

One of these days I should return to either Workflowy or Legend. My issues were silly and now are much more surmountable.

EDIT: WOW, Workflowy has really gotten with the times! Seems to be iterating much faster and even has an MCP server.

[bossyTeacher]

Workflowy is not free. If you are willing to pay, Obsidian > Workflowy. If you are not willing to pay, Obsidian > Workflowy.

[campak]

For anyone wanting Workflowy but open source and self-hostable, I’ve created Dotflowy

https://app.dotflowy.com

Invite: jesus-saves

[swah]

Same, was trying this again today. I like the parity of web and TUI.

[lab14]

Workflowy is awesome.

[bogdan]

Am I missing something? I get 100 bullets per month unless I subscribe? There are so many alternatives that are free. I'm using Capacities right now which seems way more feature rich and I haven't hit any limits on the free plan.

[lardissone]

I’m using Capacities and I love it. Great team.