[glaslong]

I'm curious how they could prevent taking them down if the local gov doesn't renew the contract? Presumably they're installed under some works dept land/pole/utility access permits that allow them the space and electrical, which all goes away and requires their removal.

Sorry if this is answered in the pod, don't have time for it immediately.

[smalltorch]

Id have to re-listen as well for all the details. But I think this is slightly different than the headline here.

In this case, the county voted for an ordinance banning them. Ike was threatened saying your going to be charged this is potentially state property, he did a sunshine request to see that they were privately owned by flock. Then he requested flock take them down but they didn't. After a few months he decided he will enforce the ordinance as the sheriff refused too.

He took them down brought them to his office. Then later 5 state officers (4 in plain clothing, one in uniform) were looking for him at his house. He brought them to the cameras and said here have them back.

Still got charged with theft somehow...

Moral of the story, that doesn't really sound like democracy to me. That sounds like kinda the opposite of democracy.

Anyway it's worth a listen if you have time. This isn't how these things should go and shows there is a little more than meets the eye here. Even if citizens perfectly execute democracy, these things may not budge. And there is a larger net of protection keeping these in place.

[alhirzel]

Didn't know about sunshine request - the website[1] - until I searched for this term!

[1]: https://www.sunshinerequest.com/

[tptacek]

This is just FOIA. You don't need any special website or process; just Google [(your state) FOIA] or [(your municipality) FOIA officer]. In Illinois, you can simply email free-form requests for documents and start a 10-day clock on the public body's side.

[alright2565]

The problem is following up. It's hard to understand the process, and what to do when the public body doesn't respond.

If nothing else, the Sunshine Request site is a good place to get form emails for these requests from.

[chaps]

What you do is: you sue. On my 13th FOIA lawsuit and I have a couple more in the works ;)

Depending on where you're from, it's pretty easy to find a pro bono attorney. In Illinois, the plaintiff's attorneys recoup their costs on a successful win.

[tptacek]

Whatever Chaps says about this, take to the bank.

[smalltorch]

Im not sure if there is a way to verify that the one he is talking about, but for public records request muckrock is great.

https://www.muckrock.com

[toomuchtodo]

MuckRock is the gold standard for systematizing FOIA requests imho.

[alhirzel]

Thank you for sharing this!

[moron4hire]

Moral of the story: never talk to the police. Even if you yourself are police.

[chasd00]

> he did a sunshine request to see that they were privately owned by flock. Then he requested flock take them down but they didn't. After a few months he decided he will enforce the ordinance as the sheriff refused too.

yeah that's basically theft then. The cameras are probably a lot of money and so the dollar number put it in felony territory.

[cucumber3732842]

>Still got charged with theft somehow...

More equal animal acting in his official capacity gets treated like less equal animal.... basically.

[adolph]

> installed under some works dept land/pole/utility access permits

Another option might be right of way or easement permitting, similar to how utility poles and such are regulated as private property with an allowance to be in a public space. If the provider got a permit to use the right of way separate from the contract, then the provider would retain the same right to be there as any other infrastructure.

[ryukoposting]

> I'm curious how they could prevent taking them down if the local gov doesn't renew the contract?

IANAL but based on the facts available to me, they can't. It's a sham held up by intimidating local officials. The cameras were installed on public property, that's that.

If they somehow keep this nonsense running for very long, I'd anticipate a Meigs Field-esque incident at some point.

[chasd00]

If the cameras and poles are private property then, contract or not, taking them is theft is it not? You'll get in trouble taking lime scooters and throwing them in the lake regardless of whatever contract exists or doesn't exist.

[ryukoposting]

The cameras and poles are private equipment installed on public property. If the city terminates the contract and says "get rid of it" and the contractor says "no," well someone has to deal with it.

Imagine if a power company got cleared to bury a bunch of power lines, but they left all the unused poles in the ground, on land they no longer have rights to. That's closer to the situation we're dealing with here.

Wireless and solar make some of the more visceral approaches to this problem ineffective. In the past, the city could have strongarmed Flock by severing power or data service somewhere on the public side.

I'd bet there are still tons of tricks LA can pull, though. These 1000 9-square foot patches of land have been rezoned as green space, we're clearing it for native plant life.

Or, like I said, just pull a Daley and remove them. The city owns the land. Flock can complain, they can sue, and they might even win. But once the city removes the cameras, Flock can't put them back. The city owns the land, and Flock has no rights to it.