[kalcode]

There seems to be a team sport mentality with AI topic in HN these days. Almost feels like people are picking sides, and thus not being very thoughtful or rational.

Sigh, there definitely an attitude creeping into the community and it's a huge turn off unfortunately.

[theptip]

Yeah, I think AI could well destroy this community. There’s a lot of personal identity tied up in being a hacker (broadly defined), and only some aspects of that identity will be strengthened by AI.

Similar to Go and Chess, AI might make “programming for beauty” more accessible and popular. However it will almost certainly make the act of writing “code for money” much less valuable, which means many people will stop getting paid exorbitant sums to do what they love.

Personally what I loved was never the typing characters or optimizing algorithms; building is better than ever. But I really empathize with those who loved the craft of code golf, algorithms, literate programming, the elegance of micro structure of programs, etc. and who see their world under threat.

[overgard]

> However it will almost certainly make the act of writing “code for money” much less valuable, which means many people will stop getting paid exorbitant sums to do what they love.

Most programmers are not being paid "exorbitant sums". Maybe if you can put up with working at Meta or something. I hate how VC culture is pretending that paying skilled people a fair wage is some horrible imposition on the poor millionaires and billionaires.

[Lerc]

>I really empathize with those who loved the craft of code golf, algorithms, literate programming, the elegance of micro structure of programs, etc. and who see their world under threat.

I love all of those things but don't feel threatened by AI. I do weird microcontroller things, I have dweets on https://beta.dwitter.net I have a website for making animations using 50 characters of a custom stack expression code. Algorithms, code golf, asm, inventing instruction sets, working on my own 8 bit cpu design, all that stuff is what I choose to do with my time.

I don't feel like it is in conflict with AI generated code. There's still plenty of uninteresting code that it can do.

I see some people disliking AI because they like solving problems, which I also don't really relate to, because AI presents entirely new classes of problems.

I'm not sure how much of this is just dependent on what kind of person you are, I find it quite amusing to see the ways in which LLMs get the wrong end of the stick and find it fascinating to analyse and counter the things that lead it to go off the rails. Some people seem to have the same experiences but completely different emotional responses.

I have made things with AI that I could not have made without using it, but at the same time AI could absolutely not have produced it without me directing what needed to be done.

I think the animosity to AI is more complex. There's combinations of anger about wealth disparity, a loss of trust, another of Sagan's great demotions, and this weird anticapitalist embracing of a hypercapitalist notion of Intellectual property.

Adding to this is, I suspect a few actors spending money to muddy the waters, from the Russian government, to the discovery institute, to people who just seem to like the sound of their own voice.

Keep responding kindly, respectfully, without assuming you know the internal thoughts of others, and you can influence things in a healthier direction.

[palmotea]

> I think the animosity to AI is more complex. There's combinations of anger about wealth disparity, a loss of trust, another of Sagan's great demotions, and this weird anticapitalist embracing of a hypercapitalist notion of Intellectual property.

I think a lot of the animosity is fear. For decades, software engineering/development/programming provided good wages,relative stability, and often satisfyingly challenging work. You saw a lot of people from secure parts of the economy being told to "learn to code," to secure their futures. Now you've got business leaders racing hard to push us into economic obsolescence or precarity (because that's where they want all labor).

It's not some bullshit about "personal identity tied up in being a hacker (broadly defined)" or liking code golf.

I think a lot of the enthusiasm of AI is from people who are too arrogant to read the writing on the wall, and it doesn't help that software engineers were paid so well for so long that many of us forgot we are laborers and confused themselves for billionaires (and adopted billionaire ideology, like libertarianism and opposition to unions).

[robotnikman]

>There seems to be a team sport mentality with AI topic in HN these days. Almost feels like people are picking sides, and thus not being very thoughtful or rational.

If you are financially set for the rest of your life - Pro AI

If you are not financially set for the rest of your life - Anti AI

[LtWorf]

We've had this discussion since the first beta of chatgpt was out and you "completely rational" people keep insisting AI is 100% perfect and better than any software developer.

Just because it's better than you doesn't mean it's better than everyone else :)

[Lerc]

>and you "completely rational" people keep insisting AI is 100% perfect and better than any software developer.

I don't think I know of a single person who has seriously suggested that.

I think the most optimistic I have heard is that it might be the case that they will be better at some point in the future, with unrealistic timelines suggested,

[nathansherburn]

As someone in the "not set for life" club, I worry a lot about my peers who are blind to the reality of AI progress. You don't have to believe AI is entirely hype to be anti-AI. It can be bad AND real.

[Lerc]

I was thinking of the Zig community but I agree that there seem to be some tribalism on HN as well.

Possibly the thing that will determine the long term survivability of each will be the respective attitudes of dang compared to Andrew. Putting out flare ups may be a fairly thankless and unending job but it probably is more protective than pouring gasolene over them.

Maybe one day dang will pop and it will all come out in a spectacular rage.

[andrewflnr]

"These days"? Only if "these days" start in 2022 when LLMs first hit the scene. Everyone recognized in their gut, pretty early on, what they were and what they represented.