[erentz]

> There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools.

But for who and where is it realized? Ireland’s massive data centers aren’t there to serve Ireland’s tiny population. The value is exported overseas and profits realized overseas.

So what really matters for Ireland (and any country/region hosting these data centers) is whether the benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created outweighs any increased electricity and environmental costs faced by everyone else.

[alephnerd]

> So what really matters for Ireland (and any country/region hosting these data centers) is whether the benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created outweighs any increased electricity and environmental costs faced by everyone else

Exactly, which is WHY IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland have been a data center first policy in Ireland since the mid-2000s.

Heck, the only reason Microsoft and Google ended up in Dublin was because the IDA clubbed employment creation with data center construction in the 2000s.

Ireland in the 1990s and 2000s was roughly comparable to Greece developmentally back then and also suffered a Greek style economic meltdown from 2008-13. The only reason Ireland didn't stagnate like Greece was because of how business and tech FDI friendly Ireland was.

[disgruntledphd2]

I think that you might have some details wrong here.

Like, Ireland supplied basically all of the English docs for windows 95, and Apple have been in cork since the 80s.

More generally, the reason tech companies came to Ireland since the 2000s was for tax purposes, which ironically enough lead to us getting bucket loads of corporate tax after the OECD reforms.

And no, Ireland in the 2000s was not developmentally the same as Greece, you may be thinking of the 80s and 90s.

But yeah, the only reason we don't look as indebted as Greece is due to our ludicrous GDP figures.

[alephnerd]

> Ireland supplied basically all of the English docs for windows 95,

Yep, but the bulk of R&D FDI and the expansion of Ireland's tech scene only arose after Google opened it's campus in Dublin, which itself was in large part to help coordinate Google's data center expansion - especially after acquiring Colt.

> More generally, the reason tech companies came to Ireland since the 2000s was for tax purposes

Not really from personal experience - the tax incentives were nice, but Netherlands also provided a similar tax regime to Ireland during that time period.

It was the data center buildout and incentives by IDA and Enterprise Ireland that were the foundation of Ireland becoming the "Silicon Republic".

Google wouldn't have expanded without the Colt acquisition. Microsoft wouldn't have expanded it's footprint in Ireland without the Data Electronics partnership. Amazon, Vodafone, EMC, Yahoo, and other early 2000s tech companies that helped seed much of the tech industry in Ireland today.

> And no, Ireland in the 2000s was not developmentally the same as Greece

At least with regards to HDI and other developmental indicators, Ireland and Greece both overlapped well into the 2000s. The divergence between the two only kicked in after 2008.

> Apple have been in cork since the 80s...

And was limited to assembly before shifting that to China in the 2000s.

Apple would have entirely left Ireland around then as well if IDA and Enterprise Ireland didn't incentivize Apple to hire support and supply chain staff in Cork - heck, Apple employs around 3% of Cork as a result now.

> But yeah, the only reason we don't look as indebted as Greece is due to our ludicrous GDP figures

It's not just about being indebted. Ireland's median household incomes now significantly exceed those of the UK despite similar CoL - which wasn't a guarantee in the 2000s.

------

Ireland becoming what it is today was not a given in the 2000s - the IDA and Enterprise Ireland pushed boulders to seed the data center ecosystem which helped build the DevOps and Infra ecosystem which then helped seed the domestic ecosystem that exists today.

All the major foreign players in Ireland's tech scene had the option to open in the UK, Netherlands, and Germany as well, but it was the IDA's hard work and foresight in recognizing that data centers and DevOps would allow Ireland to leverage the cloud hyperscaler boom and climb the value chain which allowed Ireland to reach the point it is at today.

Kneecapping an industry that is the bedrock of Ireland's economy will not help Ireland's existing issues - it will only make them worse by incentivizing the industry to shift to competitors like Czechia, Poland, and Romania (all three of whom have adopted Ireland's playbook). Even the UK has begun to use Ireland's playbook to retain it's tech scene.

[disgruntledphd2]

Well, speaking as an Irish citizen, the actual problem here is that we haven't built as much wind and solar as we were expecting to when many of those data centers were being developed.

[vishalontheline]

Employees of construction companies, electricity companies and the data center, among others, all get paid, no?

[erentz]

See: “benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created”

[pseudohadamard]

They get paid a rounding-error amount, and only during the brief construction and setup phase, compared to the total amount of money the thing is making for its owners.

[vel0city]

The construction companies don't continue to get paid much after the construction is complete.

[throw0101a]

> The construction companies don't continue to get paid much after the construction is complete.

Perhaps construction companies could hire some copyright lobbyists to get a law passed so they're paid 75 years after the creation of the work.

[dzhiurgis]

So we hating exports now? Is this post-globalist forum now?

[AlecSchueler]

Honestly kind of yes. The world is burning, and we can't keep growing like this. Tech optimism made some sense 20 years ago but a lot of us who have been here in that time are feeling pretty jaded.

[dzhiurgis]

That is insane take. Datacenters are built where it makes most economic sense (aka cheapest aka cleanest power).

If you build where power is expensive - you are burning world even more.

[AlecSchueler]

Maybe we don't build them at all and plant some trees instead. Ireland could definitely benefit more from that.

[Chris2048]

Does Ireland have the cheapest cleanest power?