[vkou]

The vast majority of the pro-datacenter 'externalities don't matter as long as I make money' is also pretty obviously astroturfed.

The difference is that much of the communication on that end happens in backchannels, directly with the regulators, in secret meetings, without any possibility of public scrutiny.

(When that isn't enough, the firehose of paid advertisements gets fired up to convince the public, instead.)

[hunterpayne]

The vast majority of the anti-datacenter movement is funded by the CCP. That's why it is so lacking in facts. Most datacenters use closed loop cooling. That means it doesn't consume water for anything more than the toilets and water fountains. Yet this talking point pops up in almost every article on the topic. Part of the reason you are seeing closed door meetings now is because leaders know that the public is profoundly misinformed on this topic. It doesn't help when AOC is waving a jar of dirty water as if it is proof of something.

[peab]

exactly. All of the arguments I see against data centers are simply arguments against industrialization.

The dirty water bit is the most ridiculous thing. It's meant to paint the picture that the data centers themselves are using the water and dirtying it, when in reality the cause is the development of the actual buildings and infrastructure, which would happen with any industrial development!

[vkou]

Most data centers do not use closed loop cooling.

They all have a closed cooling loop, but almost all of them cool the exterior condensers with an open cooling loop.

Which draws from the watermain, sprays water on the hot condensers, the water evaporates, cooling the condensers. This is done to reduce their electric bills, because condensers operate more efficiently when they are cold.

The fully closed-loop data center, with air-cooled condensers is the exception, not the rule. Because it sucks even more electricity than a regular one, due to its less-efficient cooling.

You are spreading falsehoods, while also accusing people who are factually accurate of being foreign propaganda mouthpieces. This is at best, ironic and jingoistic, and at worst...

[hunterpayne]

Do you honestly think that the very detailed understanding of cooling systems that you have has anything in common with the popular opinion that datacenters use lots of water?

Also, you are arguing jargon...and data centers use completely closed loop designs where it makes sense (very cheap power) and use what you describe where it makes sense (with more expensive power and cheaper water). Finally, nothing you said disproves that there is a significant propaganda effort to demonize datacenters by a foreign power.

[doubleg72]

Goalposts not just moved but obliterated

[hunterpayne]

Stop playing political with science!

[peab]

No, not really. My comments are organic - they come from a place of frustration, seeing such trivially wrong arguments against data centers.

All the arguments I see against data centers are arguments against industrialization. There are also arguments against capitalism and wealth inequality, that I sympathise with.