[aleph_minus_one]

> The only people doing degrees for knowledge and prestige are the filthy rich and while they may make up a significant percentage of students at the top 5 schools, they make up a tiny percentage of all college students.

I already wrote it quite some times on HN: at least in Germany, where university is rather cheap, the situation is typically different:

- The really rich kids will typically have a "career on rails", for example because of family connections. They thus often consider getting the university degree as an annoying obstacle on their way towards a certain career.

- If you, on the other hand, don't come from a wealthy background, you better are very idealistic with respect to your chosen degree course (with the only typical constraint that it will not be not be some "useless degree" (including what is called in German "Orchideenfächer" (i.e. small, obscure degree courses for which there is often no real job market))). If you are not in deep love with the subject that you study, family and friends will likely "suggest" that you should drop out of university and get a form of tertiary education that is a better fit for you, such as Fachhochschule, Berufsakademie (both offer a much more applied tertiary education than universities do) or Ausbildung (vocational training).

TLDR: In Germany, typically not the rich kids get a university degree for their seek of knowledge (the rich kid rather often consider attending university as an annoying obstacle on their certain career), but rather the smart, idealistic kids from a less well-off family background.

[thisislife2]

That is interesting! Wish more countries emulated the German education system as affordable education (and healthcare) is a basic necessity and a human right. I especially like the German vocational training "earn and learn" programs - not just the paid internship part but also how the course content is 20-30% theory and 70-80% practical. India, in association with the Indo-German business chamber, has now started offering similar vocational programs. One major difference though is that in India, this is formatted like our 3 year Diploma engineering courses ( https://articles.findmycollege.com/diploma-courses-polytechn... ). Thus, after getting a Diploma, one can also aspire to complete a Bachelors in Engineering in 3 years (i.e. if you have a Diploma, you can skip the first year and directly join the second year of the respective engineering course). I was surprised that Germany doesn't offer a similar pathway to a Bachelors in Engineering for its vocational program students.

[aleph_minus_one]

> I was surprised that Germany doesn't offer a similar pathway to a Bachelors in Engineering for its vocational program students.

Germany does, though in a different way:

Normally, to study, you need an Abitur (Allgemeine Hochschulreife) high school diploma from your school [1] to study at a university (Hauptschulabschluss or mittlere Reife (these kinds of high school diplomas are hard to translate into English)).

Recently, it has become possible that if you got your vocal training in a technical area and have work practice, you can also study for an engineering degree without gettting Abitur via an evening school.

[1] There exist exceptions like Fachhochschulereife oder fachgebundenes Abitur, but let's not complicate things.

[thisislife2]

But does it take 3 years or 4 years to get the engineering degree, after completing vocational training?

In India, you have two paths to earn a Bachelors degree in Engineering - the most popular one is to complete 12 years of schooling (i.e. high school), and then join a college / university to study Engineering for 4 years. Or, you can complete 10 years of schooling, and then join for a vocational Engineering program in a Polytechnic College. These are usually 3 years program. Once you get a Diploma from the Polytechnic college, you then become eligible to join the usual 4 year Engineering Bachelor programs. But, as you have already completed 3 years of Engineering study in a Polytechnic College, you are allowed lateral entry directly to the second year of the Bachelor Engineering program. This means that under both pathways, you get a degree in the same number of years - 12 years of schooling + 4 years for the Bachelors course = 16 years or 10 years of schooling + 3 years for Diploma Engineering course + 3 years for the Bachelor's course = 16 years. (Note that in both cases, this is in a regular day college, and not a part-time or evening college. Those who have done their 3 years Diploma Engineering courses, but also have to work due to financial constraints have the option to study part-time for a Engineering Bachelor's degree in evening classes too. But these usually are 5 or 6 years program if I remember right).

[aleph_minus_one]

> But does it take 3 years or 4 years to get the engineering degree, after completing vocational training?

You will have the ordinary amount of time at the university.

As I wrote: the time that you save is getting "(fachgebundenes) Abitur" via evening school, which was historically necessary. So you do save time, just not during attending the university.

In the vocational training, one learns practical skills, while the university is there to teach you the theoretical grounding. So, basically nothing that you learned in your vocational training transfers to university. There is a reason why vocational training vs university were historically two completely different and separated kinds of tertiary education.

[ryandrake]

The real rich don’t have “careers on track”. They don’t need careers because they and their descendants will be wealthy forever. If these guys are attending university, it is not because it is an annoying requirement needed to be an Investment Banker in daddy’s firm—that’s what the lesser rich people are doing. The actual rich are doing University just because it is an interesting side quest.