[rr808]

My parents lived in the same house for 40 years, my entire childhood was there. My grandparents (both sets) lived in their house for 50 years. I can't comprehend how Americans keep moving for jobs or to upgrade or to get to a better school district. Surely you want some permanence? Get to know your neighbors?

Edit yes I did move around in my twenties, but that stopped at 30.

[Spooky23]

Remember people marry later if at all so you break the cohort developments of growing up and adulting.

I helped lead my local little league. It’s different than it used to be - it’s pretty typical to have tball parents in their 40s. A group of parents from 20s to 50s aren’t going to hang out, they don’t relate. I’m a late genx, most of my friends parents were in their 30s when I was a little leaguer.

The demise of old line churches is similar. We did CYO basketball in the same parish my wife did. It’s the last of what was 8-10 catholic parishes in my city. And unlike in my youth where you had good mix multigenerational parishioners… the parish survives based on the beneficence of 5-10 people in their late 60s and 70s, with few people rising to behind them. Mainline Protestant parishes are similar. The only growth in religious communities are independent Baptists, which are great but integrate into the broader community differently, because each church mostly stands alone and isn’t part of a bigger system.

[frogperson]

Church groups, or at least an awful lot of them, were co-opted by groups like the Council For National Policy (parent group of the Heritage Foundation). I think a lot of younger folks see through the BS and don't want to send their time listening to hate speech discussed as gospel.

These churches chose thier path, and so did their parishioners.

[YinglingHeavy]

As a Nietzschean it is amusing, this argument that Christianity is losing favor because it is...not moral enough!

Truly our institutions are post-Christianity. The herd morality has out survived Christianity itself. Nietzsche's nightmare

[PsylentKnight]

It’s losing favor because it’s lacking in a lot of ways. The most exhorted virtue in the church is faith, which is just another word for irrationality. So the church often ends up in conflict with reality or even its own doctrine

Its more difficult to maintain this when everyone has a device in their pocket that allows them to access information and people outside their church bubble

[mjevans]

The nightmare is not outgrowing the child version of 'how to morality'. It's moving past it without reaching the enlightenment of being moral because it's the best large scale and long term strategy.

Instead the grown psychopathic children all move for instant gratification and rewards in the now, damn the cost of society and civilization long term.

I want to reach Orville / Star Trek, thank you!

[inigyou]

When you say you want to reach Orville, are you referring to the episode where everyone wears an upvote counter badge? Because I can see that one coming true.

[antonymoose]

What church(es) are you thinking of here exactly? I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life.

On the contrary, most folks in the 20-40 range are tired of “cafeteria Christian” denominations that pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by and which go ignore based on ever shifting social trends, whether it be so-called woke churches hosting drag performers or Boomer-tier Endtimes preachers that can’t stop talking about their all expense paid Israeli “pilgrimage.”

[dpark]

> I’ve never heard of any such group in my entire independent Southern Baptist life.

I grew up in the South and distinctly remember the Southern Baptist preachings against interracial marriage based on selective (mis)readings of the Bible, against homosexuality based on selective readings of the Old Testament (pick and choose indeed; hate gays while eating your BBQ pork). I remember the constant calls for boycott of Disney parks because of “gay days”.

I don’t know what it’s like I’m a Southern Baptist church now, but I seriously doubt it’s changed much.

[antonymoose]

Well, that’s quite a bit of baggage to unpack.

In regards to “miscegenation” we have Galatians which largely renders that point moot, highlighting everyone’s love of cherry-picking scripture.

In regards to homosexuality, you have Leviticus, I assume you’re referencing. Given the widespread practice of man-boy relations as famously highlighted by the Spartans and of course recent special military operations in Afghanistan I have an incredibly hard time believing this piece of scripture is at all misinterpreted.

Regarding BBQ, I assume that’s a presence to kosher law and subsequently an attempt at calling hypocrite on the congregation. In that regard we have quite a few pieces of scripture, e.g. in Mark, effectively redefining and negating much of kosher law thereby making that issue moot.

Overall - your assumption around Southern Baptists largely stands. Our last church, my wife had to constantly deal with snide remarks because of her having previously been married to a man that went and overdosed on fentanyl. Meanwhile half the grandparents in the congregation are raising their own grandchildren for the exact same reason…

Which leads to our currently being “unchurched” as they say, because the worst part of Christianity is the other Christians ;)

[dpark]

> Given the widespread practice of man-boy … I have an incredibly hard time believing this piece of scripture is at all misinterpreted.

I’m struggling with this statement. Are you saying that Leviticus is actually only anti-pedophile and not anti-gay (and so all these conservative Christian preachers are willfully misrepresenting it), or are you continuing the long tradition of falsely linking homosexuality with pedophilia? Is there some other interpretation I’m missing?

> Regarding BBQ, I assume that’s a presence to kosher law and subsequently an attempt at calling hypocrite on the congregation. In that regard we have quite a few pieces of scripture, e.g. in Mark, effectively redefining and negating much of kosher law thereby making that issue moot.

I mean, pork is only one of a million things forbidden in Leviticus that modern Christians ignore. Why is charging interest on loans okay now? Where’s the part where Mark says that’s cool? What about period sex? Seems that rule is gone, too. Where is the passage that says “Pretty much everything in Leviticus is irrelevant except the gay thing”?

[flir]

"much of"?

[mghackerlady]

I find the condemnation of people like me based on a few things in the old testament amusing, because like. You know you're supposed to ignore that right? Are you Jewish? No? Then that covenant doesn't apply

[watwut]

So like, scripture has issue with drag performance? I read bible, actually, and can argue it does not mention it.

That being said, every single denomination picks and chooses. Especially more conservative ones. And in fact, you cant take it all literally and quite a lot is not applicable.

[antonymoose]

You are correct it neither endorses nor denigrates the specific practice. So why then do we have a church hosting the performances? It’s not relevant to the faith at all? Identity politics entered the chat, unfortunately.

Which leads back to my point, there is a hunger for churches that ignore the intentional blend of secular belief systems in any direction.

[watwut]

> there is a hunger for churches that ignore the intentional blend of secular belief systems in any direction.

You are expressing hunger for openly political church. The one that will reject yout political ennemies regardless of faith.

Your opposition to drag is literally identity politics - rejection due to assumed identity. After all men only and women only groups im church go back to over thousand years.

Churches traditionally hosted musical and other performances not strictly related to scripture. Between musoc and groups and socialization and even sports, all of that wqs part of it.

[beardyw]

> pick and chose which parts of scripture to stand by

OK. Next time you read the parable of the good Samaritan I want you to reframe it as "The Good Drag Queen". That's how you are meant to see it.

[antonymoose]

I read it as a take encouraging me to render aid to anyone in a dire emergency regardless of their background.

[dpark]

That’s a very narrow reading. The parable was in response to the question “who’s my neighbor” in the “love thy neighbor” statement and Jesus basically said “even those you hate”(i.e. the Samaritans).

[Timwi]

Not sure how to feel about your implication that unmarried people are neither grown up nor adults.

[nradov]

I'm not religious but just looking around it's pretty obvious that many unmarried adults act quite immature (delayed adolescence). Which way the causality runs is harder to determine, but when you're responsible for and accountable to a spouse that forces you to grow up a bit.

[robocat]

> accountable to a spouse that forces you to grow up a bit

Having children forces you, and ~10% of married people don't have kids. In New Zealand, about 50% of kids are born to the unmarried.

As you say, correlation and causation are hard to pick given the selection biases of who chooses to be married, and who your peer group is if you are married.

[yoyohello13]

They are obviously Christian. Christians tend to have a dim view of anyone that doesn't marry and have children (unless they join the clergy).

[znpy]

Most religions do. For example I don’t think islam has a much better view of unmarried and kidless people.

[yoyohello13]

The abrahamic ones for sure.

[mghackerlady]

I don't know where you are, but at least where I am (and from what I remember, it's been a while since I've felt welcome in a place of worship) the church is oftentimes the only place you can find young families. I was raised and mostly interact with Lutherans though, so maybe it's different for other denominations

[cosmic_cheese]

Problem is, unless you happen to live in a relatively wealthy neighborhood, even if you stay put your neighbors and community probably won’t so you still won’t have much permanence.

[marssaxman]

I really don't want permanence, no! I start to feel fidgety and uncomfortable after I've spent too many years in one place. The idea of living in a single house for decades on end sounds like a kind of imprisonment.

I think of Seattle as "home", and once lived there for twenty-three years straight - but I had nine different addresses during that time. I am probably more of a nomad at heart than the average American, but perhaps Americans have more of a nomadic temperament than the average human.

Getting to know your neighbors can be a mixed bag. Sometimes you make a great new friend: sometimes you're stuck with an obstreperous busybody. It can be nice not having to spend your whole life dealing with the same people and the same conflicts.

[kakacik]

Yeah tight communities are blessing, nightmare or both. Good luck with privacy, some people are nosy by default or simply self-centered... weirdos to be polite, gossip, looking down on differences, hard to integrate for newcomers, and one has to conform to unspoken rules, like them or not. Not exactly feeling of proper freedom, is it.

If you get into beef with your neighbor for something which is trivial over long time, now you are stuck with an asshole next door for next 30-50 years.

Its not just US, we moved in Switzerland from very cosmopolitan and international Geneva to small village in wineyards and all this applies at least as much.

[ip26]

You describe it like it’s some kind of a treadmill chasing new. But if you have kids at 35, they start school when you’re 40.. were you thinking about the quality of the neighborhood schools when you bought your house at 25?

Or suppose you meet your spouse when you are 30, after you bought a house.

There’s inherently much less moving-around if you get married at 18 and have kids straight away - the plan is settled from the start.

[greygoo222]

The world is so big, why spend 40 years in a single place?

[znpy]

Lay down roots, be part of a community, have meaningful connections.

My parents live in southern Italy, in the same small town my mother is from and the small town my father is from is like 5-6 km far.

Every time there is some kind of event (eg: somebody’s parents passing away) it so hearth-warming to see people come together and try and be close to people they’ve known all their life (60+ years).

I moved to a large town nowadays for work and i have a bunch of superficial connections, my peers lament pretty much the same.

I can see why somebody would like to stay 40 years in the same place.

[inigyou]

As with many things, you can go broad, or you can go deep. Not both. You can go one and then the other.

I expect society is best with a mix of both types of people. It usually is.

[mghackerlady]

Oftentimes the impermanence is for a chance of that later permanence. Some people do achieve it, but with the economy and world as a whole right now it's becoming rarer to be able to settle down somewhere

[xyzelement]

Is it really an American thing? Every company's London office is filled with Germans, French, Italians and polaks/Russian. How'd they get there

[StefanBatory]

I am very interested in why you both chose to single Poles out with this, used lowercase AND used slur here.

> and polaks

[rationalist]

Unless OP speaks Polish, it does appear to be a mispelling of an offensive term.

> In Polish, "Polak" simply means a Polish man (with "Polka" meaning a Polish woman).

> In English, the spelling "Polack" (and its plural "Polacks") is an old borrowing from Polish, but today it is generally considered a derogatory or offensive ethnic slur for Polish people

[jacobolus]

Housing has gotten much more expensive in many places, and jobs less stable.