[SXX]

Sorry to disappoint you, but no you cannot live "comfortably" in "poor countries" for $100,000 for "years". Well, unless you mean like two years.

I lived across South East Asia for more than decade and now live here full time. I have to live on around $20,000 / year most of the time since starting my company. And I do not live anywhere close to what average US / EU citizen will call "comfortable" let alone people from valley.

Stories of rich living for cheap in poor countries its just that: stories. It only possible if you preserve your US salary. For $50,000 post tax a year you can live well unless you have kids that need not a "poor country education".

[sdsdssweew213]

I live in what according to Wikipedia is 18th most expensive country in the world. Average person working full time as a nurse here earns about 30k dollars a year after taxes. If they can survive here, 20k a year in most of South East Asia should be perfectly fine for comfortable life.

[csomar]

Surviving is different from living. You can survive in the Philippines for $100/month. I do not wish it on anybody.

[decimalenough]

Sure, if you're starting from nothing and expect to live a Western lifestyle. But you can draw down $5000/year from that sum for a very long time, and make twice the average Indian yearly income.

[SXX]

One more thing about life in developing countries, ones with seemingly super low GDP per capita. Its that low because a lot of economy in rural areas is simple unaccounted for: communities build their own housing, grow their own food or work in family business usually with no accounting or taxes whatsoever.

If you're born there you unlikely to ever end up in US on $100,000+ job unless your whole family or village invest in it.

If you're expat you will soon end up finding out that as expat you'll pay completely different prices and starting local business is just impossible unless you become part of a family.

[SXX]

Okay lets say you are a person who want and able to live on average Indian yearly income in rural India.

How the hell you end up in US on $100,000+ job? How much time it took and how much you spent on education / job search / migration to US?

If you're from India then likely all your relatives invested into your education and migrarion.

[coccinelle]

50,000 sounds like a lot. Most people in West European countries don’t make that much.

[ElFitz]

EU average is ~€39.000, gross, before taxes. And only nine countries have above average average salaries.

And that’s not available income. France median pre-tax "net" income is ~€2.100 / month.

[SXX]

EU have free healthcare and education. Also not everyone, but alot of people still own their own houses and appartments or they can get relatively cheap mortage.

Nothing of it available in cheap country for expat. If you move to developing country you better pay for health insurance like 80-250 EUR / month / person.

Also if you have a partner who is not remote worker they might not be able to find well paid job there. If you have kids then giving them good modern education in English is exorbitantly expensive.

I wont even start about fact that government of cheap country might change and you lose your residence permit, social circle or even property. And in most of countries that are easy to enter never give permanent residences and passports. You have to pay pay pay all the time or jump countries.

[ElFitz]

… which is precisely why I mentioned gross, pre-mandatory social contributions, pre-taxed income, and not net take-home? Considering said taxes pay for said healthcare, pensions, and education?

As a supporting point for

> 50,000 sounds like a lot. Most people in West European countries don’t make that much.

And a counter-point to

> I lived across South East Asia for more than decade and now live here full time. I have to live on around $20,000 / year most of the time […] And I do not live anywhere close to what average US / EU citizen will call "comfortable" […]. It only possible if you preserve your US salary. For $50,000 post tax a year you can live well unless you have kids that need not a "poor country education".

> I wont even start about fact that government of cheap country might change and you lose your residence permit, social circle or even property. And in most of countries that are easy to enter never give permanent residences and passports.

Good, because that is an entirely different and very loosely related point.

I am afraid I am not getting your point.

[SXX]

Honestly conversation did derailed. For me it isnt about US vs EU. Its about difference between living in a country with some functioning institutions, rule of law and education / healthcare.

I do care about having to waste my life setting DIY solutions because country I live in doesnt have it.

I just lived around the world a bit especially in said cheap countries. A lot of people who spend 3-6 months travelling there after college or while nomading seriously undersell how much hassle living there can be if you're there for good.

Its a good to have a job or company in US / EU while living in SEA knowing you can always return if something go sour or when you decide to start a family. Its nowhere as easy if you have hypothetical scenario of moving there for a decade.

Thats all.

[wqaatwt]

> EU have free healthcare and education

They are not free, the costs are deducted from the gross income listed above. Not that fundamentally different than employers paying for your health insurance (besides the system being way more efficient etc.)

[SXX]

Whole point is that as expat in developing countries you'll have to DIY your own healthcare. And education if you have children. And pay commercial prices.

And good education is either non existing in cheap cities or expensive in expensive ones.

[ElFitz]

> And good education is either non existing in cheap cities or expensive in expensive ones.

As it is in most if not all of the world? Free, high quality, public education is a rare thing, in most countries, even fully developed expensive ones.

Even when the schools themselves are nominally free you see well-off highly educated people do their best and pay a very large premium to get to live into the proper, usually expensive, neighbourhoods so their kids can live in the "right" school district to get into the "right" school.

Which is just paying a premium for supposedly better education. An indirect education cost.

And that is on top of the taxes deducted from the gross salary figures I mentioned, which are, in part, used to cover said "free" education.

[wqaatwt]

To be fair if you are an English speaker and move to medium/lower CoL central/eastern/southern European country you will mostly have the same concerns and will realistically have to pay commercial prices for the most part.

[mfuzzey]

Yes of course someone pays for it, in this case your deductions as you say. But I think there is a fundemental difference to employers paying for health insurance in that it doesn't depend on your job. So if you lose your job you don't lose your healthcare so companies can't use that as a way to retain you.

And the actual cost of healthcare to the organisations paying for it is actually far lower than the US system, probably partly because it's more regulated and also because there is far less litigation so insuranace for doctors is cheaper.

So I don't think the US system is "more efficient", unless by "efficient" you mean in extracting money from patients / their insurances. In the US hospitals exist to make money, in the EU it's more about providing treatment.

[LtWorf]

We're talking about an engineer here…

[foo42]

You might be surprised how "little" engineers make outside the US too

[LtWorf]

Since I'm an engineer in europe I think I have a clear idea of how little engineers in europe make. And it's not little enough to run away from your life for only 100k$

[zdc1]

The question is still what number people need to live "comfortably" (i.e. upper middle class). The average salary there may not quite provide for the amenities the average American considers "comfortable".

[SXX]

For expat most important part of comfort its entertainment and socialization. In cheap areas you will only have locals who depend on country might want or not to socialize with you, but either way cultural gap will be massive and finding friends will be a struggle for most.

There of course cities with a lot of expats and activities, but imagine what - living there is not cheap. Cheaper than US / EU, but you still gonna need that $2000 / month.

Wont even start on topic of lost opportunities from lack of networking since we talk of some extreme downshifting here. But most people need friends and safety net at least.

[lstodd]

Well you can live quite comfortably on $1500/mo in former Yugoslavia on the seafront for example. Those $100K will last what, 5.5 years?

[Danox]

You need half a million 500,000 dollars @ 4% interest (major US Bank) savings account = 1666.66 per month $1,000,000 = $3,333.33 per month $1,500,000 = 5,000 per month $2,000,000 = $6,666.66 per month

So with half $500,000 US dollars you could survive on 1666.66 per month in Yugoslavia most people, however, will spend beyond that amount however, the temptation is too high. Soccer players and basketball players, well actually most people will simply not have the discipline.

[lstodd]

we weren't talking about depositing misappropriated cash, yes?

So one ends with $100k and out of US. What can be done? Adriatic is one option. $100K will last long enough for something else to come up.

Also idk where you get data on "most people". My "most people" consider "(major US Bank) savings account" a losing proposition against even inflation.

[lobsterthief]

I agree (from semi-relevant experience). Also, any “poor” country that’s inexpensive enough to fit this requirements probably isn’t one you’d voluntarily live in.

Side note for the original commenter: It would be kinder and more accurate to state “lower cost of living countries” than “poor countries”. There are numerous lower COL countries that offer a higher quality of life a than that of the US but they aren’t “poor” (I moved to one).

[SXX]

And likely "suitable" countries are not the ones you want to do any investments or even transfer 100,000 to local bank.

I understand that side note wasnt for me, but yeah most of cheaper developing South East Asia countries are not "poor". Though there are ones you can call that, but again in a such countries you dont really want anyone to know you have $100,000 somewhere on a bank because its can get unsafe very fast. Its either "live just a little better than locals" or get in trouble.

PS: I talking of Myanmar, most of Laos and Cambodia.

[Paradigm2020]

I've lived in Vietnam on and off for several months at a time. One of the safest countries anywhere ( as long as you don't badmouth the government)

Easy to live on sub 700$ a month if you're happy with air conditioned studio, mostly asian food, scooter and not going to high end bars.

Get the 1 bedroom apartment, quite often takeaway/delivered western food sub 1500$ a month.

Go eat out western food everyday, live in a 3 bedroom in the nicest district go to fancy bars etc and yeah maybe you can reach your 5k a month...

People have no clue / are not willing to experience adjustment for 3 weeks... But easily possible to live here for budgets mentioned above...

[SXX]

If you okay to live like vietnamese person do yes you can live on $700 just fine. Especily if you single, healthy and love driving on motorbikes through rain and take a bit of risks.

Plus health insurance like Cigna for $100-200 unless you want to pay $10,000-20,000 in vinmec if you crash on a motorbike or get other serious sickness.

Plus border runs like $200-300 three times a year or often for cheaper depend on your paasport.

Problem that I doubt its how average SWE on HN imagine "comfortable" living.

Then if you have a partner who is not remote worker and kids there will be other surpeises for you.

[Paradigm2020]

The average vietnamese person in Saigon earns <400$ a month.

Why would you go to vinmec if you can use google translate / chatgpt to gwt better and cheaper service.

Border runs default are 4 times a year but only need to cost 140$ each or cheaper if you're willing to organize / drive yourself.

Comfortable is subjective and humans can change. Yay.

Well if you wanna move the posts and all... But even then with ai etc a degree becomes less relevant rather than your /their problem solving ability

[Der_Einzige]

If "poor country" includes "places US foreigners won't go" than you sure as shit can survive longer than 2 years.

For example, Thailand would be 2 years like you say. Neighboring Burma/Myanmar would be EASILY 5 years, possibly 10 depending on how long the civil war goes. That's assuming you don't work and live in the capital Yangon.

[SXX]

Sure man. And for Syria or South Sudan $95,000 is enough to live there for the rest of your life, but I'll pass on this opportunity.

[LPisGood]

50,000 post tax is enough to live well in most US cities, let alone the rest of the country.

[Jensson]

The person was probably from a poor country already and was used to that.

[SXX]

I do get that $100,000 in expensive parts of silicon valley likely will buy you a room, some food and commute to work, but math dont make sense here.

Person from that kind of country likely had to spend $100,000 just to find job and move to US and survive there for the first time.

Legal migration to US is super hard and super expensive. You have to be both very successful in what you do and very dedicated in order to do it. Or very rich. And it take years.

People who choose to migrate to US and manage to do it isnt the type to throw it away on small scam.

And if they managed to get in easy, fast and illegally then they wont be the ones competing for $100,000+ job.