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by jdw64 19 days ago
I can recognize it too. For example, there's that particular archetype where the writing summarizes things by leading with a block quote. But I don't think that's a bad thing. To be honest, I actually think some AI style of speaking is effective for conveying information.

People can have different opinions, of course. I write most things with my own hands. But if I feel like the AI's suggestion is better than what I wrote, I'll improve my writing. In fact, I did exactly that with a few pieces recently.

I respect that some people prefer things unpolished, and I respect their way of thinking. But I don't think that flat, AI assisted writing is bad for information delivery.

I believe there are many different kinds of writing. In novels or reportage, I think AI writing is bad. The style itself is part of the author's signature, after all. But on the flip side, I'm skeptical about whether someone's personality really needs to come through in a wiki or an encyclopedia.

The core of the anti AI argument right now is ultimately about form and style. But that style is something the model was trained on, based on datasets that people, on average, preferred. In other words, it's the most average, the most flat. It's inorganic, but it's the median.

When we define readers or consumers, there's always the question of where to draw the line, what segment to set. And when you think about it, the AI's training data comes from the broadest consumer distribution. It spits out that kind of data because it learned that most people preferred it.

Of course, even in informational writing, things like "has this person actually been through this?" or "is this exaggerated?" do matter, and that feeling is important. But when I read a technical article, the most important thing, unlike a novel, isn't the prose style. It's whether it hands me the technique or not.

So while I respect your opinion, I don't think it aligns with my values.

2 comments

> In other words, it's the most average, the most flat. [..] And when you think about it, the AI's training data comes from the broadest consumer distribution. It spits out that kind of data because it learned that most people preferred it.

That's not what it is! The heavy reinforcement learning that the models go through makes their writing the farthest thing possible from the "most average, flat" distribution. The distribution actually becomes very sharp due to this, unlike any writing it has seen in 99.99% of its training data! (The heavier the RL is, the more same-y the output becomes.) This is why every AI-written piece feels the same, and why people can learn to easily tell that something was written by an AI. And frontier labs make this problem even worse by how they sample[1] their logits.

[1]: https://gist.github.com/Hellisotherpeople/71ba712f9f899adcb0...

> But when I read a technical article, the most important thing, unlike a novel, isn't the prose style.

Exactly! Which is why I think there's no need to "enhance" it with AI.

Thank you for pointing out something I didn't know. That said, I do think there are some issues with it, just as you mentioned.

I think it's a simulacrum and simulation problem. I recently had a chance to teach some students, and I noticed their writing was starting to resemble AI generated text. The reason was that the AI was guiding their learning, and the students ended up picking up the AI's way of speaking.

Honestly, you can't rule out that kind of issue, and the homogenization of voice is definitely a valid concern too.

Opinions on what counts as "improvement" will vary from person to person, but I do think the problems you've raised can't be completely dismissed.

Thanks for the insight, and I'll take the time to read through the links you shared. Have a good day.

For me the core of the anti AI argument has nothing to do with form and style - although that is how AI writing can often be identified.

Its much simpler - if you cant be bothered to write it, I cant be bothered to read it. There is no communication happening otherwise. I can enter a prompt on my own.

There are some points where I disagree with that argument. It comes down to where you draw the line on human effort.

You're basically saying that hammering a nail with a regular hammer and hammering it with a power tool aren't the same act. Let me put it this way. I don't like fully AI generated writing either. But if I read something and can see traces that a human wrote the first draft and then refined it, then I don't really care if AI was involved.

It's just a question of where the effort is placed. And the real key is whether the right "keywords" are there or not. If you've actually used AI, you'll know that it's a layering tool. The output varies a lot depending on the layers of input you give it. No matter how much I prompt it about functional programming, I'm not going to get results that are deep or particularly good. This piece seems like someone put a fair amount of care into it, but I guess you see it differently.

Honestly, if the people who taught me or explained things to me had written at this level, I might agree with you. But most of the professors and people I've encountered didn't write this well this easily.

I have used AI fairly extensively to help me summarise info, or to explore topics I'm not familar with. But I don't use AI text directly in anything I write for consumption by other humans.

Aside from the fact you automatically reduce your audience, as there's lots of people who will be immediately turned off, I want to speak, not have a machine speak for me.

To take your hammer analogy, i will always use the hammer to hit the nail, but I might use a machine to help find a good place for the nail!

You have a point. I think it's just a matter of how we get information. It's a difference in values, and we're bound to see things differently. That said, this is how I think, and I don't plan to change my mind. You probably also think you're right, and given your situation, you probably are.

I respect your perspective. Have a good day, and I hope you understand that I didn't write my comment with any intention of attacking you.

Not at all - we dont have to agree but i enjoyed our discussion.