[jdw64]

Rust must be a big deal. Every post about programming languages seems to mention Rust. Even C++ articles bring up Rust, and Zig articles bring up Rust. I think it's because Rust has solved some really impressive problems. But at the same time, when I read interviews where people are so intensely conscious of Rust, I can't help feeling that they've come to see Rust as having solved the problems inherent in their own languages better than they did.

[jorams]

> Every post about programming languages seems to mention Rust. Even C++ articles bring up Rust, and Zig articles bring up Rust.

"Even C++" makes no sense. That's exactly where you'd expect it to be mentioned because Rust is pretty much aiming to be a C++ replacement. Mentions in the context of Zig also make sense, because Zig is aiming to be a C replacement in the same way Rust is aiming for C++, and C/C++ are overlapping areas.

You don't see much mention of Rust in discussions about something like Lua, because those are very distinct.

Some other reasons you might see it mentioned fairly often: Rust solves some issues at compile time that many languages solve at runtime using GC, making lower level programming more approachable for high level programmers and broadening its target audience. It has also had extremely active evangelists all over the place for a very long time, causing not mentioning it to trigger annoying derailment of discussions.

[9rx]

Do you see any other examples of where technical excellence is attention grabbing? From my vantage point, when something does a great job at solving a problem better than everything else nobody spends their days trying to read about it, everyone quietly starts using it. It is undeniable that Rust gets mentioned a lot because any mention of Rust brings the clicks. It is a big deal in that sense. But something being used to compel readers into reading content suggests an emotional longing that isn't being satisfied by the technical reality.

[asa400]

> From my vantage point, when something does a great job at solving a problem better than everything else nobody spends their days trying to read about it, everyone quietly starts using it.

Funny you should say this. 4 of the last 5 companies I've worked at have quietly been using Rust in small but key parts of their systems. As far as I know, no one outside of those companies ever publicized it. They adopted it organically and kept it around because it kept working.

Everyone loves to whine about the Rust Evangelism Strike Force but the amount of "quiet Rust" out in the wild is a lot larger than most people would guess.

[jdw64]

What is that emotional longing, exactly? I don't really know.

First, to be honest about my own feelings toward Rust: as you know, Rust's traits feel like a mix of Haskell's typeclasses and OOP, and that mashup of multiple languages just didn't click with me. I'm not a fan of solving compiler puzzles either. Especially when I've used AI to generate Rust code, it produced a lot of bad code relying heavily on clone, so it's not a language I'm particularly fond of.

In that sense, I do understand part of what you're saying. I suppose this is exactly the "emotional longing that isn't being satisfied by the technical reality" you mentioned.

So then why does the community keep holding Rust up as this symbol?

That's the hard part. Rust's promise is solving undefined behavior. But UB has already been largely solved by GC languages too. So what is it about Rust that pulls people in? Is it because it replaces C and C++, the oldest legacy in programming? Or is it because it's hard for a new superstar to emerge within the legacy that C and C++ created, so people are drawn to Rust as a fresh language? I really don't know. It's a tough question.

[9rx]

The last time I remember seeing the same kind of behaviour was when document databases appeared on the scene. Content creators far and wide were writing about MongoDB vs Postgres, stories about rewriting an app to be "web scale", and whatnot. It grabbed reader attention because a lot of people were feeling unsatisfied with products like Postgres (this was before it added a lot of the features we expect today), MongoDB solved a problem for a niche set of users, and so the race was on to read everything they could to try and convince themselves that MongoDB would also solve the problems they have, even where their problems were not within the small area where document databases are appropriate.

The most likely reason for why people are drawn to want to read about Rust for much the same reason. Note again that they are spending their time wanting to read about it, which is different than using it. Rust solved a real problem for a niche set of users. Now everyone who has problems with their existing technology stacks are trying to read all they can to try and convince themselves that Rust will also solve their problems. The heart lusts after Rust on the promise that it will solve all problems, but the mind knows it won't solve all problems. Attention lies at the intersection of those competing interests.

Rust is a big deal, but that isn't a big deal. MongoDB was also a big deal. Look at where it is at now. The good news for would-be language designers is that there is a strong signal in the market begging for a solution to their problems. The only question is whether you can deliver before the incumbents catch up (see: modern Postgres).

[jdw64]

Thank you, senior programmer, for sharing your valuable perspective. I'm Korean, so I've mostly studied Western culture through the curation of specific figures, which means I only knew broadly that there was a conflict between Postgres and MongoDB but I never knew the details like you do. In other words, for me it feels like reading a history book, whereas for you it feels like lived experience, so I imagine our perceptions are quite different.

'The heart lusts after Rust on the promise that it will solve all problems, but the mind knows it won't solve all problems.' I really like that sentence.

Personally, combining your thoughts with mine, I think this is also a matter of community belonging. In other words, I don't think the issue with Rust is that it's a solved problem. Rather, I think it's a process of burying anxiety about careers and professional uncertainty into community voices, as a way to project that unease. Learning a new language and all the libraries and frameworks tied to it is very demanding, and internalizing the conventions of a language takes time. So it becomes a question like, 'What if the skills I've invested so much in are suddenly no longer relevant?'

And while Rust's approach to problem-solving is attractive, as both you and I know, no single language can solve every problem. After all, every language has its own trade-offs and subsets. As you go lower-level, cognitive load increases significantly, which is why high-level programs are often written in low-level engines and scripts in high-level languages.

Anyway, I thought this place, where the world's best programmers gather, would be different, but I'm realizing that most programmers are quite similar.

Thanks for your thoughtful input. I hope I haven't taken up too much of your time. After all, this kind of question isn't usually encouraged in communities, and it's a difficult one to answer. Everyone thinks differently. But your explanation made the most sense to me. Have a great day.

[zdkaster]

I'm neutral. But sadly, this seems to be always the case when the unorthodox rising star emerges in the society.