[jltsiren]

> Culturally, America is much closer now to Latin America or Asia.

That's an interesting statement. From my perspective, Latin America is clearly European, in the sense I understand the concept. It feels much like Russia. Major cities and densely populated regions are European, with local characteristics. But there are other cultures around, and they are dominant in some regions. And if you travel in fringe areas, you often find peoples that have not fully accepted the European cultural package.

I don't see Europeanness as something associated with specific ethnic groups or states. It's a cultural package that started spreading from the Roman Empire and was imposed upon different peoples at different times. Where I'm from, that happened ~800 years ago, though rural areas often kept to the old pagan ways until the 17th century. That time frame is not too different from what happened in the Americas.

[alephnerd]

> Latin America is clearly European, in the sense I understand the concept

But depending on where you are in Latin America as well as their familial background they may or may not associate with a European identity.

The LatAm states who associate the most with Europe are also the most racial homogenous (Argentina, Uruguay, Chile) because of mass European migration in the late 19th and 20th century.

Other larger states like Mexico, Guatemala, Bolivia, Peru, Dominican Republic, etc do not associate with Europe because these were highly mixed societies with large indigenous or African populations, and anti-Europeanism is almost as strong as anti-Americanism for historical reasons (eg. The French invasion of Mexico in the 1860s, the Mayan genocide in 1980s Guatemala led by white Guatemalan leadership).

Most Latinos know they aren't viewed as kin by Europeans and don't view them as kin either.

> I don't see Europeanness as something associated with specific ethnic groups or states. It's a cultural package that started spreading from the Roman Empire and was imposed upon different peoples at different times

But you need to accept you are European to truly be European, which we do not - look at the rise of "Heritage American" as an identity amongst White Americans.

Europeans are invalidating almost 400 years of domestic American cultural development as well as minimizing African, Native, and Asian American influences - which is a major cultural influence in vast swathes of the US - by pushing this notion that America is "European" and as such has an obligation to Europe.

We aren't European. We're Western.

The US has had it's own culture and European influence waxes and wanes depending on region, and most Americans simply don't view Europe as important anymore since 2008-09.

[jltsiren]

Ignore the political aspects for now and focus on culture. And feel free to use "Roman" if "European" sounds wrong. But "Western" is wrong, because the same cultural sphere extends to Australia, New Zealand, and Russian Far East.

From my perspective, as someone from the Northern fringes of Europe, Latin American society and culture feel fundamentally familiar, while Middle East and North Africa don't. Out of the Latin American countries I'm most familiar with, Peru feels more European and Chile more American. Peru feels more like an Old World country, while Chile used to be a sparsely populated frontier.

Europeans definitely don't view other Europeans as kin. They are foreigners with a lot of shared history and culture. Both World Wars were fought because Europeans saw other Europeans as fundamentally different.

[alephnerd]

> But "Western" is wrong, because the same cultural sphere extends to Australia, New Zealand, and Russian Far East

Yes. And Australia, New Zealand, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea are viewed as "Western" in American discourse as well. The Russian Far East isn't though.

> From my perspective, as someone from the Northern fringes of Europe, Latin American society and culture feel fundamentally familiar

> Out of the Latin American countries I'm most familiar with, Peru feels more European...

Frankly, a Finn isn't the right person to make this distinction. And if you've been to Peru you most likely spent the bulk of your time in Miraflores and other European parts of Lima, and not the majority indigenous hinterland. The European-Indigenous fault line is a major faultline in Peru going back to the Shining Path days.

[jltsiren]

I've spent more time in the Andes than in Lima. The Quechua are clearly an indigenous group, but they have been forced to adopt most of the European cultural package. If you travel in Russia, you can find many ethnic groups in similar situations.