[subhobroto]

> What is the alternative to microchips?

There are different ways to answer this. One person gave a literal answer - Vacuum Tubes. My, alternate answer is, humans. Computers are machines that automate human processes. If we didn't have a digital domain, we would just be doing what we were doing before it, printing and writing.

> I'd bet 99% of overall token usage has nothing lasting to show for it, and of the 1% that actually compound into anything 99% are nothing like this

What you're betting with?

LLMs have changed to game on velocity of knowledge work. The future has changed and "nothing lasting to show for it" is a very limited take on the matter.

LLMs have democratized knowledge.

[customguy]

"The future has changed", oh my.

The idea that "the future is changed now, so you can't change it again" is the language of abuse, not the language of wisdom. We'll just change it again by draconically punishing thieves. Then we can have the best of both worlds: cool tech, and no Eloi/Morlock bs.

Anyway, I simply meant that most vibe coded stuff doesn't seem to get maintained, and that most token usage doesn't produce any artifacts to begin with.

[subhobroto]

> "the future is changed now, so you can't change it again"

that's not what I said.

As technologists, we repeatedly change the future - that's what makes all the pain, sweat and tears worth it. 35 years ago, when I was getting serious about computers, buying them and encouraging others to use them, people would shake their fingers at me, saying how these bulky TVs that you can press buttons at were a passing fad, that it was an absolute waste of everyone's time even thinking one would sit in front of a TV and press at buttons for more than an hour a day, that there was no reasonable way it would translate into anything but extremely niche entertainment. They would lecture me on how I was a kid who didn't know any better, that I was wasting my time out of ignorance and that I should listen to the adults who had decades of life experience and focus my time and continue studying organic chemistry and become a doctor because who didn't need a doctor?

> most vibe coded stuff doesn't seem to get maintained

even if this was true, cost of code consumption and generation has fallen so much, that anyone in a developed country can point their favorite agent to the "unmaintained vibe coded stuff" and then maintain it to their liking or rewrite it from scratch the way they wanted it to.

> most token usage doesn't produce any artifacts to begin with

Your previous statement contradicts "doesn't produce any artifacts" directly. Given what you have told me, the shallowest but congruent argument that can be made is "most token usage produces unmaintained vibe coded stuff".

It looks like you don't necessarily like what LLMs are providing to society and I can see why one would like to hold that opinion. I don't agree with that at all, because it's literally untrue given the insane demand - both from an everyday Joe and from corps the world over. No one's burning $20+/mo every month of their own money in this economy just because they are not getting anything of value.

My personal AI spend is $350/mo and it has been that for the last year. My blockers are gone. Projects that had been a distant thought, only cosidered during a flight, a wait at an airport or for a bus or Uber is finished in a weekend. My QoL and those of my family has improved so much, that I am really grateful about the times I live in.

My 100 year old grandfather struggles to communicate and remember things. I cannot expect to give him a tablet and have him use it. We have spent years looking for apps that we could use to make his life better. None of us are mobile app devs. Solved in a week.

I had random headaches when I woke up really early, ever since I was a teenager. Tens of thousands of dollars spent chasing lab tests and doctors, no solution. Resolved in a month.

The most I can do is encourage you to set aside your current stance, and just for one day, consider what if you could use LLMs to improve your life. What would you do?

[customguy]

> even if this was true, cost of code consumption and generation has fallen so much, that anyone in a developed country can point their favorite agent to the "unmaintained vibe coded stuff" and then maintain it to their liking or rewrite it from scratch the way they wanted it to.

Yes, and? In context, my point was that as far as vibe coded stuff (that I saw so far, and that gets posted on HN), this is head and shoulders above the usual goes. This general evangelism of LLM that isn't even aware of the context is really grating.

> It looks like you don't necessarily like what LLMs are providing to society

I hate what they took. If you steal from Meta, they sue you. That is all there is to say.

> The most I can do is encourage you to set aside your current stance, and just for one day, consider what if you could use LLMs to improve your life. What would you do?

Do you not understand that ethics can be a value in and of itself? I'm not ethical to interact with trinkets, I interact with trinkets (with gimmicks, with toys, with product, with dust) to be ethical. The best you can have you were born with: integrity. How much of that we can preserve is the only challenge in life I take seriously. You're asking someone who dines like a king every second what they would cook if they were "allowed" shit as an ingredient.

I have no "qualms" toying with LLM. I did, I got bored, so now I don't. When it comes to generating "art", I actually do refrain from using it even when it could be useful, because yes, it's generally theft. Wake me up when there are LLM fully trained on licensed content, and in the meantime, accept a no.