[fzeroracer]

Then this falls into the exact same pit the OP mentioned, either you need to blindly trust that the LLM is generating tests that actually work, or you need extensive test coverage for your tests to ensure that your tests are actually testing.

[jaggederest]

It turns out that you don't actually need tests for your tests, because the code provides a baseline truth for the tests. You do, at some point, have to be epistemically sound enough to actually look for correctness in either the code, behavior, or tests. We unfortunately haven't fully unlocked completely solipsistic value generation yet.

This is also part of why I like end to end tests that use actual UI flow, so I can watch it go by in slow mode before letting it loose fully automated.

[rafterydj]

Maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet, but I cannot understand what you are saying.

What do you mean by "be epistemically sound enough"?

You are using it as if to say "if your code is grounded in sound abstractions, you'll be fine and tests will therefore generate successfully" but preface that claim with "the code provides a baseline truth for the tests". The latter does not follow from the former, and it also does not lift the burden of responsibility away from the programmer - which is where my doubts on test generation stem from in the first place.

Additionally, what is "completely solipsistic value generation"?

You reference it like a perk in a skill tree, but to my ears "generating completely solipsistic values" seems like a way of describing AGI with a philosophical wording instead of just saying AGI.

[jaggederest]

I mean that your code has to accomplish something in the real world that is verifiable on a human level. It has to let customers get something done, or trade resources via a market, or something. That requires that it have some basis in reality that provides a ground truth about whether the system is working or not, and that's what gives you feedback that drives your tests and design.