[watwut]

It is other way round. If you are unfamiliar with CERF, you assume a lot more skill from the description then is actually required.

> B1 is something like five uninterrupted years[1] of consistent lessons.

If you go to lessons twice a week and dont do much else, yes. Or, if you go duolingo 15 min a day way. Otherwise no, it does not require 5 years. And what you need the most are not so much lessons (tho you need some for grammar) as watching and reading of basic media - and german has tons of those.

[mananaysiempre]

> If you go to lessons twice a week and dont do much else, yes.

Right, this is with a schedule of 2–3 hr/wk of classes (and, as I’ve said, probably 1× to 2× that in homework). Remember this is for someone who likely has to work long hours already; but also, there’s a reason why everything over that is usually described as an intensive course: diminishing returns hit hard at 4–5 hr/wk (in decreasing retention as well as not having the energy to do much homework).

> Or, if you go duolingo 15 min a day way.

I’m not convinced Duolingo can get one to B1 at all but I guess it must work for somebody?..

> And what you need the most are not so much lessons (tho you need some for grammar)

As well as to have a place where somebody will correct you whenever you go wrong and also to ask about that elusive word stuff that’s too long for the normal dictionary but too flexible to count as an idiom.

> as watching and reading of basic media - and german has tons of those.

Again, no experience with German in particular, and this also depends on your tolerance for frustration and your native language, but I’d say tail end of B1 is when you can start reading unadapted books etc. Once you do, it’ll speed up your journey through the bog of intermediate, so to say, quite a bit, but through A2 and lower B1 you do still need graded readers and other kinds of specially prepared comprehensible input.

[watwut]

You dont hit diminishing returns in 4-5 hours a week. That is simply false.

The 2 classes a week course is for causual learners people who dont really care when they get there. That is great, but if you use it as benchmark, you are implying much harder task then it is.

But mostly importantly, the things you add to learn in more reasonable timescale are not as tiring as lesson full of grammar exercises. It is litening to news, podcasts, series (starting with simple ones), reading news etc.

And yes, you can get there with duolingo. It is not as bad as legend has it, it is simply targetted at causual learners. 15 min of it a day is basically an equivalent of that slow 2 classes a week course. I am actually huge fan of causual learning, but I dont think causual learning speed should be general benchmark for how much it takes to a person that cares a bit.

> tail end of B1 is when you can start reading unadapted books etc.

There is nothing wrong with adapted books, but imo, audio resources are waaay better initial choice. If you postpone this, it will take longer, but you can start much sooner.

People do simple language news, peppa the pig, learner podcasts and simple adult netflix shows sooner then that.