[XiS]

It's quite sad to see these stats. It used to be the defacto standard for custom ROMs. These dwindling numbers make me think either people aren't as interested in custom ROMs anymore and using the (bloated/Google) factory ROMs or maybe there's some new standard.

Didn't these numbers used to be much, much higher in the past?

NB: Since I'm on GrapheneOS now I haven't looked back

[aguyongithub]

Nowadays most devices can't be bootloader unlocked at all (see Huawei/BBK(Oppo,Vivo) in China) or can but with difficulties and, in some cases, little to no driver support (see Xiaomi or even Samsung's unlock procedures too, difficult to deal with from experience). So developers cannot develop ROMs as they cannot get on the phones anyway.

This is partly done, I think, to prevent users from uninstalling bloatware (Chinese brands doing this mostly), since I've had to deal with this on a BBK branded phone, locked down so far even ADB can't touch the bloat.

Google is also a part of this with play integrity and apps being blocked from working, so if you depend on Google or if you want to use that phone in your day-to-day life with apps from work or banking apps, it might not work great on the same phone.

In my opinion I think it is mostly the manufacturers fighting this, Google is solvable but a locked bootloader isn't.

[gucci-on-fleek]

- Spoofing SafetyNet used to be trivial, and not many apps depended on it; whereas these days, it's between hard and impossible to spoof Play Integrity, and it feels like much more apps depend on it. (At least, that's why I stopped rooting my phone.)

- If you want a non-bloated, mostly-AOSP ROM with updates for many years, installing LineageOS (or another third-party ROM) used to be the only option; whereas these days, the Pixel phones give you most of this, and you can just buy these in a store instead of needing to manually flash a ROM.

- The stock ROMs from most manufacturers are less horrible than they used to be. I'm not saying that they're great now, but there's a pretty huge difference between most new phones today and a KitKat-era cheap Samsung phone.

- As you said, I suspect that GrapheneOS has supplanted LineageOS for many of the enthusiast users.

[Ampersander]

I believe a lot of the enthusiasm we had at the start of the smartphone age is also now gone. The phone is now a boring device made for scrolling and running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society.

[aarmenaa]

> running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society

This right here is why I no longer consider custom ROMs. My phone is a tool critical to my daily life and I need it to function correctly nearly 100% of the time. Custom ROMs never really reach that bar in my experience.

Also, the various forms of attestation allow corporations the power to punish me for having the temerity to modify my own property. Yet another way the tech industry has metastasized into a societal cancer.

[x______________]

> The phone is now a boring device made for scrolling and running apps that are mandatory to participate in modern society.

..a boring ¡spyware! device that tracks and listens to you!

Also you forgot to mention that you're sharing your personal and device details to our 1,893 e21 partners!

Really though, I'm just waiting for that AI agent that will help me shop online on my phone.. That's my vision of a perfect future!! /s

(how is this boring?:))

[NoboruWataya]

> NB: Since I'm on GrapheneOS now I haven't looked back

Not to suggest GrapheneOS has become the new "standard" given it currently only supports Pixels, but I hear a lot more about GrapheneOS as the custom Android build than LineageOS, so I wonder if a lot of people have moved there from LineageOS.

The other reason for a decline in custom ROMs may just be that apps are becoming more and more locked down. Banking apps are getting stricter all the time, so even the ones that work with custom ROMs today aren't guaranteed to work tomorrow. And more people probably use Google Wallet than ever, which also rules out custom ROMs AFAIK.

[XiS]

I agree on the locked down part. Ever since I bought my first smartphone (HTC Desire) I've been flashing custom ROMs pretty much the day I bought it. In the beginning it was a hastle, then it became much easier. In 2021 and 2023 I bought a Xiaomi and it required registering before bootloader unlock was allowed. I didn't like I had to register, but did it anyway.

The real problem for me were the hard to come by blobs that needed flashing after certain updates. And the fact no official supported LineageOS build as available. That last one is mostly on my part for not checking before buying. But still, in the past pretty much any popular phone had one or more official builds supported on XDA. Nowadays you need to venture into Telegram groups scrolling over endless linear conversations of people asking the same issue over and over again. Maybe I'm just getting old, but what was wrong with using a (well structured) forum?

For me, I'm not that concerned with having contactless payments work. Although I did switch banks just to not have the Google Services/wallet requirement. That was short lived though, pretty much every contactless payment now only works with Google Wallet (ridiculous), I just gave up on it and pay by card instead.

I just want to get away from the fact Google Services is integrated into everything you do on your phone. The fact Google Wallet has access to not only the payments you make using NFC, but also the last x transactions on you bank account 'for fraud detection purposes' is quite insane if you ask me.

That's why I just run plain without Google Services (not even the sandboxed one by GrapheneOS) and accept the fact certain conveniences just isn't available for me.

I don't even miss rooting, which I mostly did in the past to have (non VPN based) add blocking on OS level. I just replaced most apps by their browser-based alterantives and use an add blocker there.

[pavon]

About 250k devices were getting GrapheneOS security updates two years ago[1], so it is approaching the number of official (and opt-in reported) installs of LineageOS.

[1]https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/12281-how-many-grapheneos-u...

[realusername]

It's a combination of anti-competitive practices from Google (Play Integrity, more and more features locked behind closed source binaries instead of AOSP) and manufacturer locking the bootloaders much more than in the past.

[preisschild]

Have used LOS for a decade but then switched to GrapheneOS a few years ago. Both projects are a godsend though.

[noirscape]

It's because of Google Play Services and the subsequent years long gutting of AOSPs application list. Google enforces OEMs to bundle their entire suite if they want to ship with Play Services and then uses that as an excuse to kill the basic AOSP phone apps that are outside of their ecosystem. That in turn harms the ability for Custom ROMs to ship basic apps like SMS readers, phone dialers and similar such, all of which used to be (maybe some still are, but they're all very much not well maintained) part of AOSP. If there's any silver lining, the upcoming play service blockade to install your own software on Android is likely going to at least create a burst of users for older devices.

The actual numbers are frankly even more disappointing - these numbers are heavily pushed up up by waydroid, which is an emulator for Android apps on Desktop Computing. More than half of the US installs is running Waydroid, with the actual most used real device in the US being nx_tab... which is LineageOS for the Nintendo Switch. That's a difference of 180k and 12k btw. The most used actual phone in the US for LineageOS is beyondx, which is the codename for the Galaxy S10 5g, a device that at a glance stopped being sold last year.

China by contrast fares much better when it comes to LineageOS (as Google Play Services isn't allowed in the country by export controls, the control from Google isn't nearly as strong there); the most used device there is actually a phone, the Xiaomi Mi 8 (dipper) and right behind it, the Xiaomi Mi 10T(/Pro) codenamed apollon.

Final country worth mentioning is Brazil, which apparently really likes the moto g7 power (ocean), a phone from roughly the same period as the Galaxy S10 5g.

Vietnam is also relatively high, with the Galaxy S7 (herolte) being the most used device. Russia is just a case where it's basically all waydroid users - not real phones.

At least from my understanding of the world, most of these numbers make sense if you consider them in proximity to US power, financial capabilities making phones last longer than their official support dates and just a rough idea of what phone brands are popular in which country.

[reorder9695]

I'm trying to use lineage at the minute, but xiaomi has made it next to impossible to even unlock the bootloader on my phone, and even then I'd likely need to move at least one of my banks as I seem to remember it not working on lineage, and I'm the target audience for a custom rom. For mass appeal it needs to be much easier, and without any compatibility issues with stock android. I cannot believe it's somehow standard to not allow bootloader unlocking on a device owned by the user, I am fully aware of the risks of it but phone companies insist on treating me like a complete idiot.

[jeroenhd]

Now that manufacturers support their devices for 5+ years and ROMs are actually quite usable out of the box, the need for custom ROMs is much lower. Plus, some convenience apps require things like remote attestation, getting in the way of users. I suspect a significant chunk of the serious ROM user base is also lost to GrapheneOS these days.

Even Samsung is fine with a quick debloating session you can do through WebUSB these days. The only phones I'd really need a custom ROM on these days are those certain Chinese brands that stuff their phone with absolute garbage. Compared to the days where a custom ROM would be faster and updates would end after half a year, if they happened at all, I barely have a reason to use a custom ROM these days.

[rk06]

a significant contribution is due to android companies not allowing bootloader to be unlocked and then not providing kernel sources, making any development very hard, and many times impossible.

[khurs]

> or maybe there's some new standard.

China developed Harmony OS in response to American banning some of their brands from using Google Play.

https://www.huaweicentral.com/huawei-harmonyos-once-again-ov...

[rascul]

From what I understand, my phone's 4G won't work with lineage os and either of the two cell providers that have reception in my area so it's basically unusable for me. I would like to use it but I effectively can't.

[rbits]

My phone's bootloader is unlocked but LineageOS doesn't support it (Zenfone 9). I would use it if I could.

[pta2002]

Honestly I just don't really care to anymore. I used to flash custom ROMs on all my phones because I could only afford cheap (100-200€) phones that were filled with bloatware, but ever since I started being able to afford a decent mid-range phone (Pixel 6a was the first one I didn't reflash) I just found out I wasn't actually missing anything, and I definitely enjoy things like contactless payments, and not having something randomly break every time I update.

[ekr]

I used to be a long time lineageos (and before that, cyanogenmod) user. Phones always felt faster, smoother, and with better battery life without all the bloat. Felt more secure too.

But at some point, I had a few apps that stopped working with unofficial ROMs, or with rooted phones. For a while, I played with magisk root hiding, but the play integrity api kept changing, it was just a hassle. Not worth it.

So now I have two phones. One with lineage, and my daily driver with a factory ROM.