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by ClumsyPilot 22 days ago
Wasnt the especially hard trial and punishment of Chelsea manning, assange, etc. not a punishment by the western establishment for losing face?
1 comments

...no? Not that the answer to that question is even relevant to the comment I actually wrote.
I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too.

If you cause certain people to lose face, you will get China-like response.

In fact it’s a core conservative value and you can observe it in interactions with police - if a victim embarrasses the police they will prosecute the victim instead of the perpetrator

> I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too.

Yes, in the sense that a bicycle and a Formula F1 are both wheeled modes of transportation.

I never said that western cultures don't have the concept of pride - just that it's categorically different in eastern cultures.

This is both extremely well academically supported[1] and immediately obvious to anyone who has nontrivial exposure to most eastern cultures (including, specifically, Chinese culture).

Furthermore, the punishment of Chelsea manning is clearly irrelevant for multiple different reasons:

1. Specific instances are not reflective of a general pattern

2. Manning and Assange were instances of leakers of classified information, which is a separate category from merely "losing face"

3. There's a consistent pattern of the US government prosecuting leakers of classified information[2] even when there's zero media exposure, which conclusively disproves the "its just saving face" theory

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)#Re...

[2] https://www.justice.gov/news/press-releases?search_api_fullt...