[londons_explore]

There are plenty of people with old android phones with no free disk space using ancient browsers.

There are plenty of people still using windows 10 with updates turned off or wedged for whatever reason.

These people just use the sites that work. They aren't computer experts, and might not even realise why half the internet doesn't work - they just think that's the way things are.

[zamadatix]

I think you're conflating "old device" with "10 year old browser" here. E.g. for:

> There are plenty of people still using windows 10 with updates turned off or wedged for whatever reason.

It'd be "the pool of people who installed Windows 10 immediately in the launch year but somehow accidentally blocked their browser from updating in the 10 years since, weren't able to fix the issue as the web slowly stopped working, and are stuck using that computer anyways" not "the pool of people still on Windows 10".

The latter won't have many non-intentionally pushed into "10 year old browser status" until 2038 at the earliest.

[rvba]

When will Microsoft stop doing Windows 10 security updates?

I have a 10 year old laptop with 32GB of RAM, GTX 970 6GB and an SSD. For many things it is better than any 16GB work issued laptop (that often come with integrated cards - so you wont be able to run any AI model on them). Although the old ssd is starting to show its age (perhaps a full system reinstall would solve this, other option is to get a new one).

The old laptop does not have UEFI so it could not get the (free for some time) Windows 10 to 11 upgrade.

I am smart enough to install Firefox on it and update it, but the official Windows 10 updates will stop coming soon.

I was effectively kicked out by Microsoft because my device is "old". Even if it is beefy enough to browse the internet and watch youtube.

Note that I bought a new beefy laptop now that I hope to use for the next 5+ years (hopefully more), but who knows if they wont come out with some new idea, like UEFI 2.0 for Windows 12 - that again will mean we need to buy new hardware and new windows.

On an unrelated note I want to turn the old laptop to a linux machine - for fun and learning, but dont have the time for that.

[zamadatix]

> When will Microsoft stop doing Windows 10 security updates?

Last October, unless you are on an LTS type version - in which case somewhere between 2028-2032 (depending on the exact version). Edge will still update until at least 2028 even though the OS stopped receiving updates... though I'm not sure I would wish either of those usage scenarios on someone :).

> The old laptop does not have UEFI so it could not get the (free for some time) Windows 10 to 11 upgrade.

The free registration, they never actually axed the program at the end date https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/discussions/windows10spa.... Just make sure you use the same edition (e.g. Pro -> Pro). You also don't have to do an in place upgrade to do it. In your specific scenario, you would have to bypass the install requirements in the installer to get around the lack of UEFI though.

Hope that helps, Windows 11 is definitely a bit of an annoying step (even once it's installed).

[mfru]

You can update Win 10 to Win 11 IoT version for unsupported devices, by using something like massgrave

[Dylan16807]

If you're willing to register for stuff then you can still get updates for normal Windows 10.

[Dylan16807]

Notably, Firefox for Windows 7 has all features through mid 2023 and is still getting security updates for a bit longer.

[ben_w]

While I agree with your general gist and definitely your final paragraph,

> There are plenty of people with old android phones with no free disk space using ancient browsers.

How many people have 10 year old phones? I've got an 8 year old iPhone XR which I keep around as a backup/travel device because it's not worth selling, and the battery is… not happy even in airplane mode.

For me to have a 10 year old mobile browser, I'd have to have kept the iPhone SE 1 (or was it a 5c?) that I bought second hand in 2018, and not upgraded it since I bought it. I got rid of it because the battery wouldn't hold a charge for 10 minutes.

[autoexec]

I have a 10 year old cell phone that still gets regular use. Works just fine for things like phone calls, texts, youtube (newpipe), termux, and note taking. Original battery isn't great at this point, but a new one is maybe $15. Zero reason to replace it.

[lukasbm]

I am an expert and half the internet does not work. That's just the way things are

[alternatex]

I've a Xiaomi Mi 6 phone (2017 model) that I still use as a fridge-mounted shopping list and it's using the latest version of Chrome. I think it would be quite the stretch to find a user using a 10 year old browser.

[zarzavat]

It's fine to support such configurations by accident, but you shouldn't try to support them intentionally. You will end up dropping support eventually regardless but the skeletons will live on in your codebase as tech debt.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

[Macha]

Eventually you are making things worse for your vast majority of users when you have to e.g. make them install a native app for a video call or use a TLS version that is broken to support those Gingerbread Android phones

[Natfan]

> windows 10

or windows 8[.1], or windows 7, or windows xp... there's a lot of old hardware out there, not every is rich/tech savvy (see also: old people) enough to purchase a new device even 10 years later

[mattmatheus]

I'm not sure this is a realistic use case to try and support. A 10 year old android phone likely has a battery life measured in 10s of minutes, and really isn't something we need to worry about.

[epihelix]

I'm currently using >7 year old Android phone. The batteries on these things are child's play to replace (especially after you've done it the first time and removed the pointless adhesive in the battery compartment). I will consider upgrading once new devices return to feature parity with my current device (apparently never).

While I'm of course an edge case, the fact that Google, Apple and Samsung all provide >5 years OS support for devices now (and battery replacement services) suggests that many people hang onto their old phones for a long time.

That said, I'm not using 7 year old software on my phone. That would be insane. And my browser (fennec) was updated just a few days ago.

[swiftcoder]

You get the guy at the mall to swap in a new battery for $50 in most parts of the world. Its cheaper to do that every few years than buy a new phone, and I have several family members who refuse to upgrade on principle, because modern phones grew too large for their hands/pockets

[londons_explore]

Usually you get a guy at the mall to swap in a new battery for $10.

For $50 you can buy a whole new phone (refurb that is 4 yrs old from some other country)