[jasonkester]

It sounds like you see all the pieces, so you hopefully have all the information you need to fix your situation.

Everybody finds themselves in the same underpaid first job (or three) out of school while they build a reputation. The important thing is to recognize when you've become a Computer Vision Specialist with strong C++ and Python skills and on that day go out and find the place that pays $200/hr for that sort of thing.

There are lots of that place. As you've no doubt noticed, none of them are advertising in the London newspapers. But if you started networking your way into the computer vision scene in California and maybe finding some folks who might be in a position to hire a guy for a remote position, I can't imagine you'd do much worse than you're doing now.

Incidentally, the fact that "everybody" is trying to hire at comically low salaries doesn't mean that the market salary is comically low. Quite the opposite. If the market really did contain skilled people willing to work for such terrible wages, those companies wouldn't be hiring anymore. The fact that they keep at it is adorable in a way, but from your perspective it should be taken as meaning that they're just not being realistic about what a skilled developer should cost.

[Nursie]

I don't disagree with the substance of what you're saying but software jobs in the UK, even in London, do not pay on the same scale as they do in the US AFAICT. Or Australia actually, by moving over there from London (where I was not in a bad job) I pretty much doubled my income.

The market has always been low for permanently employed computer folks here so far I as I can see, with the exception being the late 90s before the bubble burst.

[NateDad]

Interview, get ridiculously low offer, counter offer with something reasonable. Repeat until someone accepts your counter. With so many jobs out there, you should be able to get several interviews per weeks. Someone somewhere is going to finally say "screw it, we've been looking for 3 months, let's give this guy the extra $20k - we need this stuff done yesterday".

That, or all the software development companies in London will eventually fail from lack of employees.

[Nursie]

Might work for an individual with specific talents, might not.

As I say, the market is not in a depressed state at the moment, it's not the case that it's a ridiculously low offer that's what UK software jobs pay.

Software engineers are just not paid rockstar wages in the UK. So they will find people to fill many of the roles. Software salaries are still good compared to average wages, so people will go into it, and work for better-than-average-but-not-awesome money.

[jasonkester]

Another datapoint, since you seem to be seeing only low salaries in your circle: I only know a few developers who work in London, but they all make six figures.

So while it's no doubt true that there are lots of poorly paid positions, and evidently nearly enough developers willing to fill them, there are also plenty of good jobs to be had there.

[Nursie]

Financial industry in the city? Otherwise London contracting rates I would guess. I know nobody approaching that level of pay that's not doing one of those things, unless they've moved into non-dev areas of the businesses they're in.

You only know a few devs, I think your sample is highly skewed.

[jasonkester]

You only know a few devs, I think your sample is highly skewed.

Absolutely. That's why I mentioned it.

But at least now you know what you need to call yourself if you want to make market rates in London. Those two things you mention both translate back to "computer programmer" in terms of what you actually do. They just pay four times as much.

That's a pretty good direction to have things skewed if you ask me. If I were living in London, I'd definitely be skewing my sample of jobs that way.

[Nursie]

Those are not market rates, they're outliers in a small market segment.

And thanks, but I've known for years and I don't want to make those rates in London because I don't (and don't want to) live there...

[rodh]

Thank you! I have been working very hard to build my reputation in the computer vision industry, over the years I've worked where I am. I think I'm making headway, but I do realise I still have a long way to go. It's refreshing hearing some words of encouragement! Thank you for giving me more motivation to keep pushing on this cold morning commute to work.