[rbanffy]

We have seen the “checks and balances” were held together by decorum alone. We are now seeing what happens if decorum is absent and government officials regularly lie and mislead the public and other government officials without facing any consequences.

[_heimdall]

I absolutely agree that things in the US seem to be going in a bad direction, but we haven't yet lost our constitution or system of checks and balances.

There's a big difference between the Constitution, law, and doctrine. The Monroe Doctrine, for example, was little more than policy and had nothing to do with law or constitutional rights.

Our checks and balances are still there, the problem we have today is the lack of willingness for those with the power to actually use them. Congress can stop Trump on many of the things he's doing, for example, they just don't want to and have instead continued a decades long pattern of Congress ceding power to executive. The judicial branch has at least stepped in at times, they really don't have to as the Supreme Court can choose to simply not hear a case.

The issue of lying politicians is as old as governments. If we want to focus on Trump as the issue here, and he's a big one, you only have to go back to the pandemic to find politicians on the other side of the aisle blatantly lying to the public without consequence.

[rbanffy]

> but we haven't yet lost our constitution or system of checks and balances.

> the problem we have today is the lack of willingness for those with the power to actually use them.

What they do is illegal, sure, but, unless they face consequences for that, they'll continue doing it. There are trillions of dollars to be made, and nothing to stand between them and the money.

> The issue of lying politicians is as old as governments.

It could be solved by making it a criminal offense (with attached loss of political rights and hefty prison time) to materially mislead the public while holding office (elected or nominated).

[_heimdall]

> It could be solved by making it a criminal offense to materially mislead the public while holding office

The problem would be how you define that in law and enforce it in the real world.

Its already hard enough to legally distinguish between a lie, misrepresentation, and someone telling what is wrong but they honestly believe to be true given what they know at the time. How do you define that?

And for politicians who are regularly working with state secrets, politically sensitive information, confidential/classified documents, etc how could you ever actually catch them in a lie?

[rbanffy]

> Its already hard enough to legally distinguish between a lie, misrepresentation, and someone telling what is wrong but they honestly believe to be true

You can’t and you shouldn’t. People in power need to be careful with the information they give the people they serve. If it’s wrong at the time it was communicated, too bad. The person should have been more careful.

[_heimdall]

I'm not sure how that could work. If we can't distinguish between those how would you write enforceable laws or regulations?

Its all well and good to have a blanket statement that politicians shouldn't lie. It entirely different to codify such an aspiration.