[surgical_fire]

I live in a country where the prime minister is picked by the parliament. I don't directly vote for him.

By your own ridiculous standards, I don't live in a democracy. I fact, any paliamentarism would not be democratic based on that.

[constantius]

Not the parent, but chill with the aggressive tone.

When you vote in your elections, you almost certainly know who's going to lead the country.

Not so with the EU: look up Spitzenkandidat method and the deviations from it, including von der Leyen in 2019 being parachuted into her post not based on any vote.

[surgical_fire]

No, I would rather people in this thread chilled with misinformation.

My tone is appropriate.

[constantius]

I think those people are largely in your imagination. You seem to be assuming a whole lot of dark motives or unsavoury opinions in reaction to people simply saying the EU is not perfect.

Unrelated to this chat, but I wonder what your political leaning is, just to understand where this aggressive defense of the EU is coming from. I assume you're not left or right, not radical in any direction. Would you describe yourself as moderate/centrist/Starmer's Labour/Macronite?

[surgical_fire]

> I think those people are largely in your imagination.

Nope, they are in this very thread, complaining about "unelected" officials.

Initially I dismissed this as a product of ignorance, but they keep repeating the same bullshit after being corrected. It is clearly bad faith.

> You seem to be assuming a whole lot of dark motives or unsavoury opinions in reaction to people simply saying the EU is not perfect.

That is not the argument. The EU is far from perfect, and if that's the discussion, I wouls have a lot of things to say about it.

> but I wonder what your political leaning is, just to understand where this aggressive defense of the EU is coming from.

I tend to see myself as left of center, although I did drift further to the left over time.

I am not from the UK to describe myself in in the UK political spectrum, although looking from the outside I have the impression Labour is largely ineffective and Starmer is (was?) running the government pretty much as the tories would have.

I am also not French. My understanding is that for French standards Macron is center-right?

Not sure if this answered your question.

[joe_mamba]

>I live in a country where the prime minister is picked by the parliament. I don't directly vote for him.

That's kind of whataboutism. If that works for your country and the people are happy with the arrangement and the results of this system, I don't see an issue.

>By your own ridiculous standards

I don't think direct accountability to the citizens is a ridiculous concept. If you're unhappy with a MEP, your prime minister, you can vote them out or protest till they quit. But the head of the EC, Ursula, is impossible to dethrone by the people via democratic vote or protest. You're stuck taking up the ass from someone you never voted for and don't support.

[CrisMystik]

> the head of the EC, Ursula, is impossible to dethrone by the people via democratic vote or protest

The Commission can be dismissed by the Parliament, with a majority of its members and 2/3 of votes cast