[eisa01]

Organic Maps was my go to app for a navigation app where you can fix errors yourself immediately! So much better than having to work for free on the proprietary apps, and hope they accept your edits

There’s a fork from one year ago, CoMaps, that is gaining different features

E.g., I am adding CarPlay Dashboard support that you can test by joining the TestFlight

We are in great need of both more testers and some proper iOS devs (I am not). We’re racing to get scene lifecycle support by September, perfect opportunity if you like modernising old codebases!

https://www.comaps.app/ https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps

[david-gpu]

All these apps rely on the data provided by OpenStreetMap (OSM). It is a Wikipedia-like project where anybody can contribute edits.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/

[everybodyknows]

For business operators this can be done with a low-friction web page: https://www.onosm.org/

[ygra]

Nota bene: those end up as notes on the map which another mapper has to input manually. There's a lot of spam and dubious entries so I often no longer bother entering them, especially in places I don't know or where I cannot verify the information.

[lavela]

I was using Street Complete for some time and was always wondering if using these apps is considered helpful or if it only creates churn/noise. Is there a general consensus on that in the community?

Would it be more accepted to just do a few small, potentially not metadata-complete edits myself or is the review structure (if there is any) geared more towards fewer, more steady contributors?

Did one direct edit once and iirc it took ages to land in the map and I wasn't able to grasp if came from new editors' edits being scrutinized more carefully by too few reviewers, from the nature of the edits (deleting a bunch of buildings after demolition and probably not replacing it with the right area type) or if the release cycle for new edits to be included is just way longer than I would have expected.

[ygra]

As a frequent contributor myself I love StreetComplete and I wouldn't worry about it perhaps generating a few changesets more than strictly necessary (it tends to make one changeset per quest (with multiple amendments for individual answers) and also only during a certain time frame. Sure, that means that adding information to a staircase creates multiple changesets (incline, step_count, surface, handrail), but that doesn't really matter.

What StreetComplete is very good at, in my opinion, is simply QA on the ground. SC asks about features existing on the map (benches, bus stops, shops, roads, barriers, etc.) and some of them might go stale. So asking about opening hours of a shop might cause someone to look and notice that the shop is closed now, or replaced by another one, so in many cases the quests that add detail to objects have the nice side-effect that those are being looked at and reviewed whether they still exist, which otherwise does not happen often. The barrier to adding new data is often lower than fixing or removing outdated information.

And it's such a low barrier to entry, especially for people not familiar with OSM's tagging, since the UX is very well designed for beginners in my eyes (while still being useful for advanced mappers), that you can easily recommend it to people who like those kind of hobbies (e.g. geocaching, Pokémon Go). For me it was an excuse to go outside more, also to places I haven't been, during COVID-19, just to tick off another quest.

[maxerickson]

The review does not block the data being added, it's more of a request for feedback.

Different maps have different update cycles. The slippy map on osm.org is meant to update as quickly as possible, usually a few minutes, but sometimes there are hiccups. Zoom levels that show larger areas also update a little slower.

As long as what you are adding is up to date/accurate, I wouldn't worry about whether you've captured everything about the features. "This thing is here" is a lot better for the map than no information.

[trueno]

do these damn projects even push the proposed edits up back to openstreetmap?

insanely shameful if not

[shrinks99]

Yes, CoMaps lets users submit basic data that updates OSM for addresses and POIs. It's a harder problem than you may initially think too, quite often the delivery format of OSM data differs in schema from the DB format. In the case of OrganicMaps and CoMaps, they both generate offline-optimized map formats for distribution.

[superjan]

They can’t do so automatically. Osm Editors must approve. Apparantly OSM fears legislation when people copy info from google maps. They like to see evidence, like street sign photos. In my limited experience anyway.

[jraph]

I occasionally contribute to OSM. You just send your edit and they are directly live. I don't think there's prior moderation. On these apps you log in to OSM using an OSM account IIRC (though I mostly use EveryDoor or directly osm.org for this, occasionally StreetComplete, I don't contribute using Comaps)

[ygra]

Some apps don't edit OSM directly, but rather add a note on the map for others to edit. Maybe that's what they meant.

E.g., OrganicMaps often creates these kinds of notes: https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/5377887 which for certain kinds of edits is safer than trying to directly edit. StreetComplete does the same in many cases when something no longer exists. I think, shops and other places can often be added directly, though since that has little to no ties to existing data.

But yeah, I'm using mostly StreetComplete (SCEE) when outside, sometimes Every Door and Vespucci. For offline map apps like Organic Maps it's likely not easy resolving potential conflicts with live OSM data that might be weeks or months newer than the map data in the app.

[notabotiswear]

Yes, OrganicMap pushes new places and metadata edits directly. I think they only use notes for deletions.

In batches, to be exact. Multiple edits in relatively short intervals (a few minutes) are commited as one.

[ihatehn]

This isn't true, I don't know any FOSS OSM apps that have any approval process.

[superjan]

I can imagine it is not the same everywhere. I guess I have an active local chapter of editors. Given that I have 2 comments disagreeing and none concurring I guess this is an exception.

[ihatehn]

I've been editing OSM since 2015 and contributing to FOSS OSM apps for about half that, there have been conflicts or special cases in the past but edits on StreetComplete, OsmAnd, Organic Maps, and CoMaps all go live without any mandatory review. There's a "request review" checkbox on OSM changesets, but it's somewhat rare to actually get a review and the edit is live in the meantime

[iririririr]

yet google was caught red handed stealing openstreetmap data for years and all it led to was a timid Ooopsy letter.

the real reason is that user content, either you don't have anybody contributing, or you're flooded with abuse. there's no middle.

[gpvos]

I assume they all do, it's nigh impossible to maintain your own data fork and keep reconciling your users' edits and the updates from OSM.

[palata]

> do these damn projects even

Do you have the slightest idea what OpenStreetMap is and how it works? It sounds like you have absolutely no clue, and it still doesn't prevent you from using that kind of language.

[hk__2]

Of course they do.

[hinata08]

yeah, so were LibreOffice and OpenOffice relying on the .odt format

CoMaps forked out of OrganicMaps after a row about money

[JumpCrisscross]

> CoMaps forked out of OrganicMaps after a row about money

Organic Maps is organized as a for-profit entity. CoMaps is not. This is a real difference, and the former asking for donations makes it look like a scam.

[nexus6]

Looking at the OrganicMaps app on iOS and it seems to be free, with an option for donations in the menu . What does OrganicMap specifically do in order to make profit?

[sneak]

Charge for downloading map data.

[Tomte]

I have downloaded many maps and not paid anything.

[flaburgan]

Here is the open letter to Organic Maps owners written by people who then forked it to Comaps, if you are interested: https://www.comaps.app/news/2025-04-16/1/

[roysting]

Always the rows about some kind of BS that fragments, fractures, and defuses the efforts into pet projects instead of ever actually being a viable alternative for the majority of people to corporate offerings.

The hardest thing about any effort that is two or more people is the interpersonal, coordination, consensus, and organization aspects. Everything else is easy in comparison.

[jonahx]

It makes sense. People generally want at least one of: money or decision-making power.

If they have to negotiate, constantly settle, and get no money, that's a hard sell.

[dotancohen]

How hard a sell that is depends heavily on how much that person values their time. I know people who are experts in their field, who have had their with-source Wikipedia edits reverted to incorrect or misleading information by people who have more time to argue online than they do.

[roughly]

“Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty”

[VorpalWay]

I have used OsmAnd+ for well over 15 years by now, which also uses OSM data, just like these. And I have used JOSM on my PC to fix the OSM data myself.

Does Organic maps / CoMaps offer anything OsmAnd+ doesn't for someone who uses it for car navigation (especially on back roads in the wilderness) as well as hiking? (All in the Nordic countries.) I also record tracks with it.

[idoubtit]

I also use OsmAnd~ for hiking, and even more for cycling. I tried CoMaps after a friend recommended it. In my experience, OsmAnd is much more powerful, and if you can tolerate its complexity and battery-drain, it's worth it.

- CoMaps is much simpler, but lacks features. OsmAnd has (too many) features and requires heavy configuration, e.g. to disable some features I never use and optimize battery life.

- Loading a track (GPX) in CoMaps is cumbersome (you have to "Open with..." from a file navigator). OsmAnd can load tracks from within the app, and just display them or turn one into a route. With CoMaps, I couldn't load more than one on a map. My GPX routes are prepared with BRouter on my desktop computer, since both apps are unable to build routes of 150 kms

- CoMaps is better at energy saving. OsmAnd drains my battery in 5-6 hours when the screen is on (the screen roughly accounts for half of the drain). YMMV. For long rides, I switch the phone off as soon as I don't absolutely require its help for navigation.

- OsmAnd has features that I would never give up. Notably, displaying markers on "drinking water" POI, so that I know when I'll be able to refill, or decide if I must deviate my route toward a drinking tap.

- There are more maps and data in OsmAnd than in CoMaps, and more visualisation options.

- Last time I tried CoMaps (from F-Droid), at some point the screen went blinking, alternating between home and CoMaps. The only way out was to shutdown the phone.

[edit: BRouter for routing]

[loscati]

> Notably, displaying markers on "drinking water" POI

In CoMaps, they are shown under: search > categories > water (then you can press "show on map"). Not straightforward, but it is there. Fairly enough, don't know if "water" includes drinkable ones only.

[xattt]

> CoMaps is better at energy saving. OsmAnd drains my battery in 5-6 hours …

Have you considered a dynamo hub with a headlight with USB output?

[epihelix]

OsmAnd~ is great for hiking, when you need topographic contour info, 3D relief shading, etc.

CoMaps is a much simpler and faster interface, that I use for driving navigation. (I use a 7 year old S10e, though, so it's possible that on a modern phone you'd not notice the difference?)

YMMV, but they're both free, so it's easy to try and see for yourself :)

[IndySun]

I ditched osmand because the interface is so convoluted. Ridiculously so. Plus theres a facebook pixel in there somewhere, at least there was when I dropped it 10 years ago.

CoMaps seem sincere.

For Nordic/outdoors, outcomes using either osmand/comaps/etc in practice are going to be very similar.

[birdsongs]

Not sure where in the Nordics you are, but just want to plug ut.no and norgeskart.no for really fantastic Norway navigation.

Both have free apps (norgeskart has a 50kr / year subscription to support and add more features), and both are incredible for navigating trails, marked and otherwise, anywhere Norway.

[IndySun]

Great detail on norgeskart.no. Thanks for the headsup.

[liotier]

> I ditched osmand because the interface is so convoluted. Ridiculously so

OSMand is a cartographer's friend - it does everything and more... With all the drawbacks of doing that.

CoMaps is better targeted to the needs of most people.

[IndySun]

>CoMaps is better targeted to the needs of most people.

Thank you. Both use OSM. The similarities are so slight I'd be inclined to recommend a region specific map, as is our friend with norgeskart.no for those particular cases.

I admit I haven't reloaded OsmAND this year, but I do every year, and delete it every year. Moreover, for me, using OSM is partly to get away from trackers, and facebook at all costs.

[zelphirkalt]

In my experience from years ago, OsmAnd was always very slow when searching and also didn't find much, as if it required a 100 percent match for anything one searches. Really annoying. Then I discovered Organic Maps, which behaved better, and more recently switched CoMaps, due to ideological reasons.

[bluebarbet]

The question I ask every time there's a breathless new post about the supposedly revolutionary Organic Maps.

[gentile]

I've been making some custom maps for both Osmand and Comaps. The main big positive for Comaps I've seen is Android Auto being available freely (but you have osmand+ so moot point). But having used both, the tooling for osmand is far more mature. Creating an obf file (osmand file type) is a lot easier than the process for an mwm file (comaps file type). Far more routing or ui customization options in osmand and routing.xml files for even more advanced custom time penalties/weighting profiles.

[VorpalWay]

I happily own a car with nothing fancier than a bluetooth radio. No touch screens and no Android Auto is a blessing.

But from this and sibling comments it seems that CoMaps have nothing to offer me (except possibly better search).

[atollk]

What do you mean by "scene lifecycle support"? In general, I like cleaning up old code bases. But I don't see how that relates to testing?

[eisa01]

We need to do this transition, or contributors on macOS 27 won't be able to compile the app...

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/UIKit/transitionin...

Regarding testers we had a TestFlight build with non-functioning CarPlay, and it was only discovered by me (and I don't even own a car..)

If you're interested in taking a look, the easiest way to get involved would be to join our Zulip instance (Slack clone): https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps/src/branch/main/docs/CONT...

[frevib]

Any recommendations for an OSS maps app that provides tracks like Strava,l and Komoot?

[stigi]

I'm working on something that is best described as Komoot meets Mastodon. Self hostable and federated. It's pretty early, and the UX is pretty bare bones still.

If you're keen on checking it out you should be able to find it in my recent Github contributions, following the link in my profile.

[la_fayette]

ok cool, i see there is already a similar project called wanderer, so i assume the difference would be in the planning module? thx

[stigi]

Yes, I like wanderer (http://wanderer.to/) a lot!

The difference is the planning, I'm building my tool around a collaborative use case. I'm often doing multi day bikepacking trips with my close friends. The planner supports real time collaboration, so multiple people can plan on the same route together.

Also for me it's an experiment in AI driven development (which I hope won't alienate people to much).

[rapnie]

There is a federated application called Endurain [0] that can be self-hosted, and is compatible with Strava and Garmin Connect. Not a phone app, but a web front-end. I don't know how well that works on mobile.

[0] https://docs.endurain.com/gallery/

[mgerdts]

You can record tracks with (I think) both Organic Maps and CoMaps. If you are interested in the social aspects of sharing tracks https://wanderer.to/ and a few others offer imports of GPX and other track formats.

[jbc1]

Track recording in comaps is super finicky, at least for me. I’ve lost multiple recordings while checking the map mid hike.

I can’t say what the exact cause is. Should probably work that out. But I’ve taken to recording using it and all trails at the at the same time with plans to bring the missing data over to comaps at some point.

[w4der]

I just go on Wikiloc to find tracks, then export the GPX file into CoMaps. I know that Wikiloc is not OSS, but at least I can do navigation with custom routes that way.

[buu709]

Do you mean tracking your workout? If so there's Fitotrack on Android.

[aitchnyu]

Any ones which tries to avoid realtime traffic, especially in India? Also ones which detects some shortcuts as narrow, meandering roads that will be extremely slow.

[eisa01]

There’s actually work ongoing on live traffic support from various public sources!

https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps/projects/21877

[harkdif]

This looks really solid. It's the thing that would make me switch over. 90% of the time I know exactly where I'm going but need Google Maps to tell me what's unexpectedly in the way while I'm trying to get there.

[dexterdog]

My problem is that more often than not the road or business name I'm trying to find us just not in the database. If I'm at home I'll try to add it but if I'm driving that is not going to happen and I'll just use something else.

[zaik]

Thank you for contributing! The task of mapping every street and business in the world sounds impossible, but openstreetmap.org does really well.

[harkdif]

Yeah, that's a great call-out. While I can reckon my way most places, memorizing cross streets isn't my strength. Not having at least decent recency on top of traffic makes it tough.

[ryukoposting]

I'll preface this by saying I can't speak for India. I live in the US. Use your own discretion to decide what here might apply to you.

I've been using Organic Maps for almost 3 years. I lived in Chicago during this time, as well as some smaller American cities. I go back and forth between Organic Maps and GMaps depending on the situation.

I've found that Organic Maps' lack of traffic data isn't a big deal for me. It doesn't always give you an accurate ETA, sure, but it isn't any worse at actually getting you to your destination.

The thing with GMaps is that everyone has traffic data, so nobody has an advantage. Google's alternative routes end up equally saturated as the main routes, meaning a "dumb" maps app that always takes the main route will get you to your destination in basically the same amount of time. This is backed up by my own personal experience, and some academic research [1].

Now, when I do need an accurate ETA, I go back to GMaps. I'll also use GMaps to route to businesses sometimes, because OSM doesn't have up-to-date info about businesses throughout most of middle America.

[1]: https://trid.trb.org/view/1495267

[embedding-shape]

> I've found that Organic Maps' lack of traffic data isn't a big deal for me. It doesn't always give you an accurate ETA, sure, but it isn't any worse at actually getting you to your destination.

Some places live traffic information gives you a choice between a 10 minute way and 40 minute way though, if you get stuck in the wrong spots it really truly sucks, and for us who live in these places, being able to easily route around those spots saves us a bunch of time and energy.

I want to use any client app that uses OSM for car navigation, as I contribute both money and map fixes, but currently nothing seems to come close to either Wave or Google Maps when it comes to traffic information, which ends up being pretty important (for some), so I end up using Organic Maps only for when I walk on foot.

[ryukoposting]

> Some places live traffic information gives you a choice between a 10 minute way and 40 minute way though

I lived in one of those alleged places (Chicago) and didn't observe this in practice. When Google sees that 10-minute route, it quickly starts routing drivers that way, and eventually both routes equalize around, say, 30 minutes. When two routes are that disparate, by the time you actually get midway through the faster one, it's just as congested as the slower route.

I think there's a weird psychology to these apps. When Google gives you a wack route through a residential area, it feels like you're getting an advantage. It feels like you're beating traffic. But you never beat traffic in a car, because you are traffic. And Google never sends only one car on a faster detour. It was always half a dozen of them or more. I saw this a million times in Chicago.

Getting pretty local here, but I remember one of Google's favorite alternate routes vividly. Instead of taking the Edens south into the Kennedy junction, it would have you exit onto Foster and then take some rando residential street south to Montrose or Irving Park. Every single time it did this, I'd see a parade of cars in front of me and behind me. The white glow of GMaps on a new car's infotainment screen is unmistakable. I could see what was going on, all of us could see what was going on. Meanwhile, you're driving past a bunch of kids waiting for their bus, or a ride home from school, and those are all delayed because me and a hundred others are using a side street as a commuter artery. This saved, on a good day, five minutes on a 35 minute commute. It was more antisocial than it was efficient.

[haspok]

> The thing with GMaps is that everyone has traffic data, so nobody has an advantage.

It's not necessarily about "advantage", especially on longer journeys. What if there is a crash on the Autobahn 1 hour in front of me? Even if I don't reroute, I at least have a choice of planning my toilet and lunch stop _before_ the crash site.

It is also possible to plan a different route if the crash is visible so far ahead. There are usually multiple routes I could take, and I decide based on the traffic and other factors, where I go. It can depend on the time of day, the time of year, etc. Maybe usually I don't take the one which is 100kms longer, but in the case of a crash, or even just heavy traffic it could be quicker still.

So for any non-trivial journey, I always use navigation, even if I could drive to the other place blindly. It's not really about navigation, it is about the current situation on the roads.

[rompic]

In Europe you could use NUNAV, which does collaborative routing to avoid this scenario (I work for the company that develops it).

[cge]

That would be interesting to try, but unfortunately, at least on iOS, it’s region-locked by account region, so as someone who goes back and forth between the US and Europe often, despite being in Europe, I’m entirely unable to install it at all without making significant changes to my Apple account.

[nekusar]

I prefer Google Maps cause they'll tell you where pigs camp out.

Saved me a lot of speeding tickets on the interstate.

[WindyMiller]

Comaps can display your current speed and (if it's in the data) the speed limit for the road you're on - everything you need to avoid speeding tickets!

[ryukoposting]

Put this in another comment, but social conventions for driving vary a lot by region... in the US at least. Can't speak for anywhere else. In Chicago, if you're driving the speed limit on an interstate, people just assume you're geriatric or stoned. The flow of traffic is consistently 10-15 over on all Chicago area interstates. Cops do 20 over. But, in the Bay, unimpeded flow tends to rest at 0-5 over.

As someone who isn't a speed demon, I still like the police warnings because it's a timely reminder to check myself. Am I matching the flow of traffic? Do I blend in? Am I making myself a target?

[greentea23]

It would be really cool to see the social situational awareness sharing feature be implemented in an open client over an open censorship resistant protocol. Because to me Google maps is just mass surveillance by the pigs even if it does happen to help you today, the long term incentive for big tech is to erode user freedom and collude with corrupt governments.

[roysting]

Waze is way better for that and where Google gets its data, but delayed it seems, because they’re both Alphabet.

[seb1204]

Fwiw, Waze is owned by Google. Google acquired the crowd-sourced navigation app in 2013.

[MikeDods]

a cool hack i found to avoid tickets is to make sure to drive at the speed limit, saved me many times!

[ryukoposting]

This is a nice feature, I'll give you that, especially when you're in a new place. Social conventions of driving vary a lot, and "hey there's a cop ahead" is a good reminder to check yourself.

I'm no speed demon (it's just not worth it IMO). But, in Chicago you can do 10-15 over on an interstate and nobody cares. The cops are doing 20 over. If I saw someone actually doing 55 on the Dan Ryan I just assumed they were stoned, and I'm only half-joking. Elsewhere around the Great Lakes, it was more like 5-10 over. Meanwhile, in the Bay Area the flow of unimpeded traffic is usually only 0-5 over.

[mbirth]

There’s Magic Earth which uses OSM map data but also integrates live traffic information. Not sure whether it works in India, though.

https://www.magicearth.com/

[embedding-shape]

Have they tried/are there any plans of upstreaming that somehow? While I rely on proprietary services for car navigation today, if I move to a OSM-based services next, I'd want it to be similarly structured to actual OSM, not some proprietary bolted-on-top-of-OSM startup that will disappear/enshittificate within years.

[mbirth]

Magic Earth is 10+ years old by now. Only recently they've introduced a (very reasonable, I think) Premium subscription to cover their costs. I guess the live traffic data is bound to some licenses so they can't just "upstream" that.

[ihatehn]

M.E. is closed source and some would argue somewhat enshittifying

[vrganj]

Has there been any discussion about moving the Android codebase to Kotlin?

This seems like an interesting project to contribute a little bit to, but I can't deal with Java anymore...

[eisa01]

Yes, there are some initial discussions around that!

It's probably easiest to discuss in the project's Zulip: https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps/src/branch/main/docs/CONT...

Switch to Kotlin: https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps/issues/1984 Migrate to Compose: https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps/issues/4298

[nelgaard]

Comaps works for free with android auto.

I did buy OsmAnd a long time ago, but have since used the OsmAnd~ and needed an OSM client for a car.

I like OsmAnd because it is very powerful, but comaps is more elegant.