[dijit]

> System based on trust eventually get abused.

This is true. The tyrrany of the untrustworthy is that they destroy society for the rest of us.

The best thing we can do is control our spaces where it can be controlled. Don't hire untrustworthy people, be extremely punishing to those who break trust.

Rule 0 of any good community is: don't act in a way that makes me create a new rule. Workspaces are as much community as anywhere else, as much as Americans promote the idea that we're not actually fully human when working.

[_DeadFred_]

In the USA the most untrustworthy among us who in your words are "destroying society for the rest of us" are employers, as wage theft by employers is the largest form of theft in the country.

If workspaces are as much a community as anywhere else, the fact that the rot starts at the top should be the most major concern. People taking sick days seems like it falls way down the list of concerns in trying to get the American workspace ethical and overcome the tyranny of the untrustworthy (employers) of which you speak.

https://www.epi.org/publication/epidemic-wage-theft-costing-...

"In 2019, the total cost of every robbery in the country was $482 million. The cost of wage theft was more than 100 times that number." https://www.workingnowandthen.com/blog/wage-theft-the-50-bil...

"More than $1.5 billion in stolen wages recovered for workers between 2021 and 2023" https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-2021-23/

[joe_mamba]

>In the USA the most untrustworthy [...] are employers [...]tyranny of the untrustworthy (employers)

Have you ever been an employer? Like if being a trustworthy employer is so easy why aren't you and many other people doing it to set an example? How come all employers are tyrannical?

IMHO your blame is misplaced. A lot of the issues you point out are not due to employers, but due to government regulations or lack thereof, and the issues of the way the economy and financial systems are setup to incentivize, which the government is also responsible of regulating and enforcing. Without proper regulation and enforcement to even the playing field, the only ones who manage to stay in business will be the unethical ones and all those gets dragged into the mud.

Try being an employer for a year and find out for yourself. It's easy to just say employers are tyrannical when you've never been on the other side and never had to deal with workers like you who automatically blame society's woes on you just because you're a business owner as if S/M business owners make and enforce the laws.

[_DeadFred_]

Why are you defending/waiving away wage theft? Not stealing from people and following the law is the absolute minimum an employer can do. It is not the governments fault when you break the law. Should it be ok for an employee to steal because someone else stole from work? Because society is complex and hard and has rules and laws but can't police everything 24/7?

I've been an employer. I've been a manager. My family owned factories. None of us were forced to steal wages. If you are in that situation you are a zombie business that can't actually afford to function properly.

Here's OPs tone that I simply echoed back but directed at the actual identified largest thieves in our nation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48788134

And they are the largest thieves without even going into abusing 1099. Hiring undocumented workers under the table. And all kinds of other 'acceptable to civil society' society undermining behaviors.

[joe_mamba]

>Why are you defending/waiving away wage theft?

I'm not, and since you started the argument in bad faith with things I never said, I will stop talking to you there because obviously there's no point to it and I'm wasting my time and energy on you.

[_DeadFred_]

Sorry, zero bad faith on my part

You waiving away poor business behavior (the behavior being discussed being wage theft) because 'good behavior is hard':

> if being a trustworthy employer is so easy why aren't you and many other people doing it

You saying companies are practically forced to steal because government/regulation:

>the issues you point out are not due to employers, but due to government regulations or lack thereof, and the issues of the way the economy and financial systems are setup to incentivize, which the government is also responsible of regulating and enforcing. Without proper regulation and enforcement to even the playing field, the only ones who manage to stay in business will be the unethical ones

You completely ignoring that the tyrannical statement came from the post I responded to I and simply redirected their ridiculous premise from workers to business to highlight their ridiculousness:

>It's easy to just say employers are tyrannical when