[embedding-shape]

> They recently overhauled their lineup and replaced all Zigbee devices by Thread + Matter.

Uuh, seems not keeping up with social media finally backfired. That sounds horrible! So far IKEA been a great experience when it comes to HA+Zigbee stuff, and I started buying stuff relying on they'd keep just keeping up with that, really sad to hear they've changed course.

The "secret pairing mode" stuff sounds the same as currently/before though, but they only do so for a subset is new and hope they again change their mind.

[Gigachad]

Thread is significantly better. Zigbee relied on proprietary hubs and apps or hacky work arounds. Matter over thread devices don't need a brand specific hub or app. You can literally control the new ikea products direct from a modern iphone which includes a thread radio, no hub, server or app required.

If you already own the ikea hub, they secretly put thread radio in it which was just sitting unused in preparation for this range.

[microtonal]

It's complicated. Matter over Thread is indeed nice in that it you only need generic Thread and Matter servers. It also makes it easier to share credentials between ecosystems. Thread itself is also a pretty nice standard technically.

There are also strong downsides though, one is privacy and future cloud lock-in. Zigbee is fully local. Previous Thread standards added the option for NAT64 so that Thread devices can access the internet and there were some Thread + Matter devices that already require internet access for full functionality (IIRC some Nuki smart locks, but I might misremember). However, Thread 1.4 also adds support for Thread devices to get a globally routable IPv6 address. The Thread 1.4 whitepaper is pretty blunt about what this enables:

Simplified Cloud Integration: Thread devices can now seamlessly connect directly to cloud services, enabling remote control, monitoring, and over-the-air firmware updates.

https://www.threadgroup.org/Portals/0/Documents/Thread_1.4_F...

The fact that Thread and Matter are strongly pushed by Google, Apple, etc. should tell you enough.

Now, a TBR may simply allow you to disable NAT64 or globally routable IPv6 addresses (e.g. Home Assistant's addons), but many consumer implementations don't. E.g. the Apple TV is a Thread Border Router and does not allow disabling NAT64, so Thread devices can access the internet, send analytics, and can be cloud-controlled.

Also, the ecosystem is still pretty immature, as a result of which you can encounter issues, typically resulting in unstable device connectivity. E.g. TREL does often does not work well. Apple has some hacks to fix most of the issues, but it only works well between Apple devices. So it's generally the best to avoid combining multiple TBRs into the same network.

[jonpurdy]

Thanks for this info. I've been patiently waiting for Thread/Matter devices so that I could just use my AppleTV as the TBR and not need any Zigbee gateway. And not need HomeKit-specific devices; just use generic ones.

But I'm certainly not about to let simple IoT devices have any internet access at all. Being unable to block this on the TBR as you suggested would be mandatory for me, and not possible on AppleTV.

[embedding-shape]

> Thread is significantly better.

Better than what already exists and is deployed? I dunnno, hardware already in use always beat "hardware conceptually better but I don't have it", that's why Zigbee is better, for me. Protocols much like everything in the world, isn't correct/incorrect or universally "better", it's all down to use cases.

Personally, as someone who started to rely on IKEA providing Zigbee devices, Thread is obviously worse, because 100% of the devices I have are already Zigbee and not Thread.

[Gigachad]

Ikea preemptively sorted this out by putting thread radio in their hubs years before rolling this out. There's also thread radios in the latest chromecast, apple tv, and loads of other products. If you have a single thread border router in your house from any brand you'll be able to connect to any thread device from any brand. Phones can also directly control thread devices without needing any network or hub.

It's a vastly better system and the transition period is so smooth because the smart home companies have been deploying the thread hardware for years before anyone started using it.

[microtonal]

smart home companies have been deploying the thread hardware for years before anyone started using it

Also worth mentioning that many modern Zigbee radios can also be Thread thread radios using different firmware. There are even multi-PAN radios that can do Zigbee and Thread at the same time. Some smarthome hubs use multi-PAN (e.g. Homey Pro), but it's generally recommended against now because of lower reliability.

The same applies to devices, e.g. some of the new IKEA devices work over Thread or Zigbee (Zigbee pairing is triggered using a non-documented sequence, presumably they added support for TouchLink). Or e.g. the Aqara FP300, which can be flashed with Thread + Matter or Zigbee firmware. It works because the same radio can be used for both protocols.

[Hikikomori]

This wasn't true for zigbee either. I used a zigbee usb stick with home assistant, could use any stick that was supported.

[microtonal]

Yeah, I bought a bunch of INSPELNING smart plugs when they were clearing out the inventory. The new GRILLPLATS switches are more compact though, which is nice.