[prima-facie]

Laws restricting the use of local AI/LLMs are not going to happen, no matter how much Anthropic might want it. All the major OEMs are now counting on local LLMs to take off. Just look at the OEM support for the upcoming Nvidia RTX Spark platform: Asus, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Microsoft, MSI. All the big names in the industry will have, by the end of this year, Nvidia-powered machines made specifically for local LLM use.

[gonzalohm]

You seem to be so sure, but lobbying in the US can do incredible (and stupid) things. Look at the 3d printing control laws that are being passed in NY

[prima-facie]

And this is exactly my point, the OEMs have more lobbying power and leverage. Anthropic might be valuated at whatever amount, but they're a new player and their only product is a piece of software - which others like Google, OpenAI, etc also have (not identical but similar enough).

EDIT: FYI https://ibb.co/nMYP34Rr

[gonzalohm]

And you think Google, one of the biggest cloud providers, Microsoft, etc. are going to be onboard with local LLMs? I don't think so

[thewebguyd]

Not sure about Google, but these Nvidia RTX Spark machines are specifically a Microsoft+Nvidia partnership. Microsoft is actually pushing hard on Windows security primitives for agents & local AI. At BUILD this year they used the phrase "unmetered local intelligence" more times than I can count.

From their blog about the RTX Spark surface ultra

> purpose-built to develop and run up to 1 trillion-parameter frontier AI models locally

Google may not want it, but Microsoft has a ton of lobbying power, and being primarily an enterprise software and services company, they know local AI is important for their own customers, and will also be important to sustain the PC OEMs that are threatened by a move toward thin client like devices.

[HPsquared]

Not forgetting Apple!

[ThunderSizzle]

They'll do local LLMs you have to pay for. Best of both worlds: your LLM processing power will be locked behind a subscription.

You'll be coerced into a subscription to unlock the processing power you already have, and it'll only be usable by official Microsoft, etc implementations.

They get your money, get to control you, and best of all, they don't have to run it themselves in their data centers

[jaapz]

Have we seen this with CPU's being throttled only to have to pay a subscription for more performance? Or GPU's? Or memory? Or storage?

[ThunderSizzle]

The obvious brain-child of this concept is HP and their consumer inkjet printers. Originally, they sold their printers for "cheap" and then sold ink for a premium. However, as consumers realized any old printer ink works just as well as "HP"'s ink, they created DRM for ink-cartridges.

Now, you have to basically use their "Instant Ink" monthly service in order to print anything, based on my understanding. $6 for 50 pages a month: https://www.hp.com/us-en/print

(If you try using non-official cartridges, the printer may refuse to print entirely. If you cancel the sub, the printer will refuse to print until you renew or find DRM ink).

LG is pushing for subscription models in their fridge line-ups: https://www.pcmag.com/news/lg-wants-you-to-subscribe-to-your...

I don't see a price for the subscription yet, but it seems they are targeting 2030 for a subscription fee lock-in.

Intel did "Intel Upgrade Service", which locked already fabricated features on a CPU behind what is equivalent to today's same-day DLC - you paid more money, got a code, and it unlocked more cache and/or hyperthreading capabilities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service

The backlash in 2010 on Intel was probably severe enough to delay it significantly, but with many industries trying it out (Cameras, TV's, fridges, cars, etc.), consumers probably won't have many options left.

[gunalx]

Google knows they will happen and even ships it with chrome.

[tingletech]

Google ships a local LLM with chrome browser nowadays. Don't they also provide the weights for the LLM built into iOS and MacOS?

[anon373839]

Google and Microsoft both have released a bunch of open models and research, unlike Anthropic, which does nothing but take.

[Georgelemental]

Said OEMs could advocate for narrow carve-outs that apply only to them

[bmurphy1976]

It's not just NY. California, Colorado, Washington, they are trying to pull this bullshit in a whole bunch of states.

[danlitt]

> 3d printing control laws that are being passed in NY

The "don't print guns" laws? What lobby would that be? I actually agree that the US is very vulnerable to lobbying and that 3d printing restrictions are dumb, but I have no idea how you connected the two.

[kube-system]

> The "don't print guns" laws? What lobby would that be?

Gun control lobbying groups are pushing for these laws.

https://www.everytown.org/solutions/stop-spread-of-3d-printe...

[CamperBob2]

Wow, that is some breathtaking stupidity. Almost literally breathtaking. Who is funding these people?

[kube-system]

The point of a special interest group is just to serve the special interest, nothing else.

Basically all of them will throw any other interest under the bus to support their own.

[charleslmunger]

Michael Bloomberg

[willy_k]

The “install software that phones home to [government db] to check if the tube shape you want to print on the tool you bought and own is different enough from another tube that’s been used in a gun” laws?

Laws that don’t meaningfully impact alleged 3d printing of guns because you can’t 3d print the metal parts of a gun that are needed to actually do gun things, on the vast majority of devices these laws would restrict.

[danlitt]

Did you read beyond the first sentence? This reply makes no sense if you read the whole comment.

[willy_k]

Yeah fair, I did when I was halfway through and decided to get my piece out anyway. These laws are stupid at best

[gonzalohm]

Check out Louis Rossman video https://youtu.be/E1B2cWEaWDw?si=njkPnZqd0NIz2i39

[mrmckizzle]

Can you use an LLM to teach you how to build a gun or use it to design a gun for you build? Can an LLM be used to generate images of young people for older perverts? If yes, then it's not very hard to make the argument that you need to be licensed in order to run an LLM on your local machine. Why wouldn't you want to be licensed? Are you against protecting children and public safety? Many students die from gun violence every year and massive amounts of minors are taken advantage of by human filth. Why would you be against protecting the most vulnerable in our society?

It will look good for politicians who pass legislation to "protect" the vulnerable. Potentially improving the chances of another term due to the marketing benefits of pushing such a law through. I think you are mistaken believing that this may never happen.

[linkregister]

In the US, attaching legislation like that to firearms instructions would doom its success. It sounds like a great idea to ratfuck a potential bill. No Republican would be able to pass a bill that bans local agents from helping citizens exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.

The politics are probably different in other countries. We're still seeing Chat Control efforts in the EU.

[mrmckizzle]

That is the one of the main reasons they passed the law to limit 3-d printers.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/keeping-new-yorkers-safe-go...

Now where I could agree with you is if you made the argument on a state-by-state level. Pretty sure what you said would hold up in Texas

[andai]

https://xkcd.com/504/

> I think the crypto community took the wrong side in that fight. We should have lobbied to keep it counted as weaponry.

> Why?

> Once they get complacent, we break out the second amendment.

[iugtmkbdfil834]

Yeah. I suspect parent either is very optimistic or does not know how restricted current batch of language models are already or does not recognize that, while it may some time to completely neuter, they do have time.

It seems that powers that be learned something from the world wide web deployment.

[g42gregory]

By the same logic, you would need to license Google and youtube access. Just because it's interactive, doesn't change the premise. But yes, that exactly the arguments Anthropic and OpenAI will use for the regulatory capture.

[torpid]

Wait until they figure out regular people can just use photoshop to hand make photorealistic depictions and regular CAD software to make gun parts. Better license computer use, too.

[baq]

There’s a combined $3T+ of capital which is at least in some position to benefit from local AI ban. Don’t underestimate this

[delecti]

There's a lot of capital that stands to gain from banning local AI, but there's also a lot that wins either way, or only wins if local AI sticks around.

Apple is paying for their cloud AI, but they can make customers buy devices for local AI. There's all the PC and Android handset makers (ASUS, HP, countless Chinese brands, etc.) who only really stand to gain from selling hardware to customers. Not to mention that Nvidia/AMD/Intel would all happily take a cut on both halves of the ecosystem.

[hahahaa]

If big biz wants it, it'll only run signed blob models and prolly send telemetry.

[iugtmkbdfil834]

Point is.. if I want to run equivalent of GNU model with zero blobs or other corporate silliness, I should be able to.

[hahahaa]

We should absolutely yes

[dofm]

And Adobe! I've always figured their heart can't really be in the business of running a cloud platform that has to decide what people can and can't edit.

Blackmagic Design too.

They are all desperate for Windows to run well on a chip with unified VRAM.

[prima-facie]

Well, we could expect anything from Adobe. An LLM subscription on top of the regular Adobe subscription sounds like the sort of thing they would do.

Do your local filters run slow? Does your movie render have no sass? Then sign-up for AaaS!

[dofm]

They effectively do have a generative AI plan on top of regular Creative Cloud. Generative credits auto-top-up I think?

But it must be an epic pain for them to maintain when they are really a software company, and AI tools really should be able to do most of their work locally. Affinity has some local model support for example.

I am sure they are going to have to maintain cloud support for those features for a long time, but it's all a much easier sell if you can also run it locally.

[matheusmoreira]

Don't doubt it. Situation is fluid. Anything could happen.

[XorNot]

Its just so much easier to be a rebel for an imaginary cause then any of the real ones.

[SamPatt]

The entire point is to stop it from needing to be a cause in the first place.

Trying to establish the right to run models locally while we still can makes more sense than waiting to see if they do try, then organizing too late.

[Der_Einzige]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Without_a_Cause

[AlexandrB]

I love how Nvidia is playing both sides. No matter whether AI's future is local or on the cloud, they come out ahead. I suspect they're going to be the biggest beneficiaries from the AI run up.

[ang_cire]

I think you are assuming those companies won't sign on to be on a list of "authorized model operators", while letting it become illegal for you to run deepseek yourself.

[KeplerBoy]

Isn't the RTX Spark from every OEM just nvidia throwing a bone to their decade long partners after nvidia crashed the regular PC market?

[Razengan]

> Laws restricting the use of local AI/LLMs are not going to happen

Are you sure? There are already laws against what you can do at home with very basic (pun) fundamentals of reality like chemistry.

Someone simply searching for "How to assassinate Trump" could get arrested for a thought crime. Hell this comment alone likely set off a few flags.

Imagine someone running an AI at home and asking it for planning a hit on someone. Cue same media fearmongering wave as with 3D printed guns and woohoo now it's mandatory for operating systems to watch your screen and all your keystrokes.

Fuck I probably gave some of the control freaks in power some ideas there :(

[sometimelurker]

it would be so easy to rent GPUs in europe and use unbannable encryption (tor,i2p if needed) to get inference from them. that remaining as an option makes banning local AI pointless. if all else fails I'm sure china will be able to sell to NK some GPUs and we can get inference from them lmao