[flohofwoe]

Tbh, for living in the East you sure have the clichee of the arrogant and ignorant 'Wessi' internalized to a P. The idea that there are 'no-go-zones' in Saxony is just silly (I have grown up in one of those apparently 'nazi-infested' areas, my entire family lives there and I visit every couple of weeks). Yes there is a significant far-right problem, and no I don't have a solution either, but as far as hardcore neonazis go, that problem was far worse in the 1990s and early 2000s than now (this was when the 'old nazis' from West Germany moved into East Germany to build their networks - sowing the seeds basically).

Today there are plenty of 'non-white' (as you call them) refugees and asylum seekers (mostly from Syria and Afghanistan) and many more Ukrainian refugees (which for a while were the main target for Russian/AfD propaganda in East Germany) living in Saxon small towns, and 'somehow' it seems to work out (just travel by train or bus through the more rural areas of Saxony for a bit and you'll see).

In conclusion, your black and white world view and generalized insults towards East Germans are quite frankly disgusting.

[jijijijij]

Wrong comment? I wasn't talking to you and you didn't address any argument made, just reiterating the ever same Ossi vs. Wessi blabla.

> I have grown up in one of those apparently 'nazi-infested' areas, my entire family lives there and I visit every couple of weeks.

And are you even targeted by racism to make yours a relevant experience? Do you even try to understand the problem?

Man, and you even got some refugees! Saxony has one of the lowest shares of migrants and people with a migration background in all of Germany. Even Leipzig and in particular Dresden show up at the bottom compared with other German cities. That's facts.

* https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migrationshintergrund * https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bevoel...

In contrast, as shown above, Saxony has one of the highest rates of violent crimes motivated by right wing extremism (going on for decades). Tendenz steigend. All together, this makes Saxony factually one of the most dangerous and unwelcoming places to be for anyone targeted by racists. And dude, this is violent crimes, it doesn't even consider the daily verbal hostilities etc..

Maybe, just maybe, if people there would care as much about this very real problem as they care about its perception, things would change for the better. Making yourself the victim is what's disgusting.

[1718627440]

> I wasn't talking to you

I think he represents my sentiment well enough, and this is a public discussion.

> this makes Saxony factually one of the most dangerous and unwelcoming places

It might be comparatively more dangerous than other countries in Germany, but the point is whether it is actually dangerous for the everyday people. That's the reason I compared it with death statistics, even though it has nothing to do with that at all. You are more likely to die, then to perceive an attack. If Saxony is dangerous and a no-go zone for these attacks, than it is surely dangerous due to all the people dying. I would suggest people to not be born, as it often leads to death.

[jijijijij]

Yeah, this is all about sentiment, not facts, huh?

> the point is whether it is actually dangerous for the everyday people.

Again, that's not just whataboutism, but irrelevant. "Everyday people" in Saxony are not affected by xenophobia and racially motivated violence, so your thinking is just really, really insufficient. The death stats include dying of old age. Mind boggling, you think of that as relevant and even keep insisting it is. Not a good look really.

If you can't understand this reasoning you should not be using statistics to make a point. It's not for you. Your goal isn't truth finding, but venting some hurt caused by self-ascribed entitlement, so I am out. Good luck with that. I am getting popcorn watching Saxony fuck up this undeserved opportunity.

[moritzwarhier]

As a Western German myself (who doesn't vote AfD), I'm inclined to agree.

Division and looking down on people, especially using attributes like "braindead", is arrogant and also just adds to the political capital of the far right.

Things that are not direct calls to violence or tearing down democracy must be acceptable parts of the discussion. And calling people who have opinions you consider hostile or wrong "stupid" has never helped anyone. Even when these opinions already cross the line of what's acceptable or are really "stupid" in your best-faith interpretation.

The Ossi/Wessi thing is especially problematic to bring up I feel. Also, the German East has been attracting industry and science facilities for quite a long time. And parts of Western Germany still seem to have issues with losing their perceived cultural hegemony.

But this process should be welcome to anyone who honestly wants a united Germany state.

Sowing division by looking down on the "former DDR" is a poison to democracy, just like yearning for autocracy.

The term "former DDR" is only recently going out of style in Western Germany, and that already says a lot.

Looking down on the AFD is understandable when you detest right-wing ideology, but it is no more helpful than laughing about people who were nostalgic about parts of the former DDR.

Adding arrogant arguments about wealth, the economy or cosmopolitanism will only increase this division and also the success of the AFD in the West.

For example, rejecting to celebrate and awe at cosmopolitanism and multiculturalism is not "Nazi".

That being said, yes, there are violent Nazis in Germany, many but not only in Eastern Germany.

Pointing fingers at only this problem just further sows division though, and it should also be clear that the far right that is active in the East is not a seperate entity from the far right in Western Germany.

Some regions in Western Germany also have strong far right hegemony, or are shifting to it, especially the poorer regions.

Sowing division about wealth and relating it to xenophobia is not helpful in increasing tolerance or decreasing frustration of working people.

And there is a shrinking part of the German left that ostentatiously is about human values, but has an ambivalent relationship towards capitalism, while rejecting any and all remotely critical sentiments regarding immigration. Often, even rejecting the German state: considering themselves leftists, but at the same time being deeply intertwined with the dominant cultural and political currents, and often enjoying a lot of wealth.

The arrogance of this "wealthy liberal establishment" as an issue is not much different from what helped Trump get elected, I feel.

The contradictory combination of being anti-right, pro-immigration, demanding of material wealth and at the same time claiming the moral arrogance of being on the morally "good" side will not slow down the decline of the left party of the political spectrum.