[Manuel_D]

You realize that "changing the world without politics" doesn't mean overthrow of democracy. It means founding businesses to produce goods and services that change the world. Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.

[jakelazaroff]

If that were the case, then why do they spend millions of dollars on lobbying every year? Why does Meta have a "president of global affairs" plucked from Republican political circles? [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Kaplan

[Manuel_D]

You realize that lobbying is working within the framework of an electoral democracy? When environmentalists lobby for more stringent emissions rules, they're not overthrowing democracy they're participating in it.

So the answer your question: Meta spends millions on lobbying to influence elected officials, because it knows has to work within the democratic system.

[jakelazaroff]

I was specifically responding to this claim:

> Google and Facebook absolutely changed the world, not through politics, but by creating technology.

But it sounds like we're on the same page that they did change the world in part through politics?

[Manuel_D]

I'd say they changed the world first and foremost through technology. Their lobbying effort is mostly focused on keeping the government from interfering with their technology efforts.

But back to the main point, quoting someone saying you can change the world though technology instead of democracy and trying to use such a statement as evidence that they want to abolish democracy is nonsense.

[jakelazaroff]

Au contraire, their lobbying efforts are focused on creating regulatory moats around their businesses: https://techcrunch.com/2020/02/17/regulate-facebook/

[Manuel_D]

Facebook was created more than a decade earlier than your link. Of course if the government starts to threaten to regulate social media, Meta will want to influence the decision to benefit them. But Facebook changed the world well before the regulation push, and I'm pretty certain Facebook would have preferred that the government continued to remain uninvolved.

[onemoresoop]

> founding businesses to produce goods and services that change the world

Why begin with surveilance though?

[Manuel_D]

Palantir builds analytics, tools to better use and interpret the data that the government already has. The data collection, the actual surveillance, is done by the government.

Palantir started with analytics because the founders believed the US was making poor use of data, and needed better tools.

[onemoresoop]

Prior to Palantir data was being siloed which was a feature if you ask me. Then Palantir found a way to break that and it played out recently eg. ICE hunting people

[aosmith]

He's a troll, carry on...

[dgellow]

Yes it does. He and Thiel are open about the fact they don’t believe in democracy and want to get rid of it

[Manuel_D]

Again, where does Karp or Thiel say they want to get rid of democracy? They've said that government is bad at solving a lot of problems, sure. But that's a far, far cry from calling for the abolition of democracy.