[f6v]

> We would build our own alternatives.

Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna? The gap between US/China and the EU in AI is becoming wider by the day.

Russia has like 3-4 large tech companies (Sber, Yandex, VK, and maybe Ozon). And they completely rely on foreign hardware. I don’t even want to imagine how could Russia start building frontier AI in these circumstances.

[ben_w]

> Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna? The gap between US/China and the EU in AI is becoming wider by the day.

We've repeatedly built things, they often get bought by US companies. This doesn't necessarily even involve them moving office, as for example Deep Mind was founded in the UK (while it was in the EU) and is still there (HQ: London; research offices in France & Germany so still in EU too) despite now being owned by Alphabet.

[piva00]

> Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna?

We have, they get bought by American companies as their exit strategy.

If American companies decide to shutdown access then there's no pressure from the behemoths to stamp out competition, it would just be natural that alternatives take over since the market clearly exists and without American tech companies filling that market it would be pretty easy for alternatives to grow.

[petesergeant]

> Right, and we haven’t because we just don’t wanna?

The EU hasn't because European investors are shy about deploying capital. If you look at European weapons and aerospace, it's clear there's no particular technical or capability barrier.

[f6v]

There was a very real barrier to building tech companies. We couldn't listen to Spotify at work during the time people seriously called Berlin the "SV of Europe" (our office was in the neighborhood called "SV Backyard"). Why? We didn't have enough bandwidth, and the wait time for fiber was measured in years.

[petesergeant]

I remember 2008 very differently, was this a very localized Berlin problem?

[ben_w]

From anecdotes around me now I live in Berlin, I believe it extended at least into Brandenburg.

Even in 2019, some coworkers were complaining that the best offer from their landline company (in one of the small villages just outside the Berlin city limits) was dialup.

Berlin's reputation post reunification has been "poor but sexy".

[f6v]

Nah, I’m talking 2016. I have no idea about commercial internet outside Berlin. But my residential connection in suburbs of Aachen in 2015 was copper.

[maligenligen]

We hadn't because we didn't have to.

[hparadiz]

It's actually pretty sad for the EU that the biggest tech company names on the continent are all Russian.

[ben_w]

Not that "largest by market cap" says much, given that it corresponds to "oh look a monopoly" as much as it does "innovation and real growth" (and also "bubble"), but you're wrong.

Market caps of Russian examples from above:

Sber: $84 bn - https://companiesmarketcap.com/sberbank/marketcap/

Yandex: RUB 1327B (~= $17 bn) - https://tradingeconomics.com/yndx:rm:market-capitalization

VK: RUB 176.7B (~= $2.3 bn) - https://smart-lab.ru/q/VKCO/MSFO/market_cap/en/

Ozon: $8.9 bn - https://companiesmarketcap.com/ozon/marketcap/

Market caps of bigger EU tech firms:

  ASML: $533.84 B
  Siemens: $223.14 B
  SAP: $202.96 B
  Seagate Technology: $164.43 B

- https://civixplorer.com/post/most-valuable-eu-companies-mark...

[zurfer]

ASML, SAP, ARM, Spotify, ...

How do you define biggest? Can't be by market cap.

[antonvs]

Don’t believe everything you read in Pravda.