[fcsp]

Great buildup on Sony's side to gain trust in this move in the gaming community ahead of this announcement when just this week they again pulled hundreds of "purchased" movies from customer's libraries without refund, reminding everyone that digital content is rented, not owned.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/06/sony-erases-digital-...

[Marcan]

And don't forget closing the PS3 and Vita Playstation stores, which they announced at the same time:

https://blog.playstation.com/2026/07/01/an-update-on-playsta...

This is a weird marketing strategy. They must feel free to do as they please since they know consumers are trapped.

[II2II]

> They must feel free to do as they please since they know consumers are trapped.

My take is somewhat difference: Sony is offloading the cost of their prior decisions onto consumers.

For things like movies, they should have negotiated a contract where sold copies are sold copies and cannot be revoked (even if their right to sell/rent copies lapse). For things like the PS3 store, it cannot be run indefinitely. That said, from my understanding, the authorization keys expire if the clock battery on the PS3 dies. That should not be permitted.

I don't think that this is a "do as they please" situation. I think it is a case of bad decisions being made in the past. For some, like the movies, there isn't much they can do to fix the problem after the fact. There is absolutely no incentive for the rights holders to let consumers continue to access previously purchased content (especially with Sony taking all of the blame). Even something like offering refunds to people who purchased the movies is problematic. In all probability, all of their contracts have similar terms. They would have to refund everyone for every purchase in the long run.

Other stuff, like access to PS3 purchases, are likely fixable. The question is: where is the incentive? They could create a patch for old consoles, but it would only affect a small number of customers who still have those consoles. (Worse yet, it wouldn't do anything for those who stored their consoles in the closet -- only to pull it out later to discover the authorization keys are invalid.) The math probably doesn't work out for them so they aren't going to do it.

[rubyfan]

> They would have to refund everyone for every purchase in the long run.

That is the minimum they should do. At best they should offer the movie collections for free through competitors.

[zamadatix]

There's no limit to what the best they could do is. A full refund is just what's simple, fair, and quick. I wouldn't put it past them to try to find some legal basis that the minimum is actually less than that in certain jurisdictions though.

[account42]

A forced refund to something you purchased years ago is not fair at all. At the very least they should have to pay current market price for a replacement.

[II2II]

The trouble with that is you cannot operate a business where you pay your suppliers for a product then give everything away.

I am saying that as a reflection of reality, not to absolve Sony. Someone at Sony must have understood that their licensing agreements were incompatible with the definition of sale. Someone else likely stuck some clauses into the EULA to reflect that, fully realizing that no-one reads those things (also realizing that it is not reasonable to expect consumers to read an EULA for every transaction in their life). The someone who is now responsible for executing the outcome would also understand that there is the potential for legal action on such a matter, but they also understand that there are legal machinations that will, at worse, limit the damages to a sum that is lower than the cost of refunding the full value of each and every purchase made through their service.

[denkmoon]

Sounds like fraud.

[thaumasiotes]

> For things like movies, they should have negotiated a contract where sold copies are sold copies and cannot be revoked (even if their right to sell/rent copies lapse).

This is how movies work on GOG.

In what might not be a coincidence, they haven't released any movies for many years, and the product category isn't even visible if you don't already own a movie through them.

[Mindwipe]

> For things like movies, they should have negotiated a contract where sold copies are sold copies and cannot be revoked (even if their right to sell/rent copies lapse).

It's difficult to see how this could ever be possible without significant legislation changes. Nobody (but nobody) offers this, and in the vast majority of the world you literally can't buy out music rights in this way for any licensed music in the titles. That's why literally no online store offers this.

[smelendez]

It works better with music because many stores will sell you a DRM-free mp3. Most movie stores are just “selling” you long-term streaming access.

[sidd_sarkar]

same

[PaulHoule]

I made a decision to get away from other consoles and only invest in Steam a while ago. In the 2010s I was a big Vita player but Sony backed away from investing in the Vita and I saw that the kind of Japanese games I liked were coming out on Steam so I sold my Vita.

[eru]

Steam has been (mostly) a good citizen. But there's not much in the way of legal or technical hurdles to them going down the same path. It's all goodwill and reputation.

I hope it's enough.

[mjevans]

If steam ever goes up in smoke, there will be infinite justification to never trust download only ever again.

[eru]

GoG deliberately comes without DRM, so that's still good.

[fluoridation]

You can at least make local backups of your Steam games. If a game is removed such that you can't even download it anymore, you can always just install it manually.

[j1436go]

That's what GOG offers. And I'd advise anyone to use GOG over Steam for their principles alone. Every game you purchase through their platform is DRM free and they go to a lot of effort to preserve retro titles that would be difficult to play nowadays without a lot of tinkering. They also put no limitation on how many family members you can share your games with.

[dtech]

Steam has DRM,so no. Easily cracked yes, but then you can just go the full pirate route.

[Hikikomori]

Optional DRM, but essentially on by default. Could maybe consider it malicious compliance as its so easy to bypass but still allows them to check the DRM checkbox.

[fluoridation]

The point is that with Steam you have more options than with consoles.

[lordfrikk]

Not completely true, many games on Steam in fact do not have any DRM. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48755132.

[pseudosavant]

And it doesn't have to be this way. I started buying Xbox games digitally for the Xbox 360, and with their backwards compatibility that ended up being a great choice. My current XSX plays games for the last 3 generations of digital purchases I've made.

[fcsp]

Well it's just for new sales, access to purchased content remains "for the foreseeable future". How long the future is foreseeable for Sony? Might want to ask the Concord team maybe.

[dogwalker5000]

> they know consumers are trapped.

Gaming is a luxury good. We can all just walk away.

[bogwog]

Walking away from the closed platform you invested hundreds/thousands of dollars into over the years is a luxury (especially if you were mislead into buying a PS5 with a disc drive thinking it'd be supported at least until the end of the product's lifespan)

Monopolies, anti-competitive behavior, and anti-consumer behavior in general are all bad bad bad. You have to be a very interesting individual to disagree with that.

[hnlmorg]

> especially if you were mislead into buying a PS5 with a disc drive thinking it'd be supported at least until the end of the product's lifespan

8 years is roughly the lifespan for a games console though.

And I say this as someone who hates Sony perhaps more than most, having lived through their the CD rootkit and PS3 OtherOS debacles. And been burned by their substandard yet overpriced audio equipment.

[xandrius]

Game consoles are not biological beasts which decay as a matter of nature or fact.

They are tools, toys, they are devices. I can still play my PS1 as before, I just need to pop in a CD and I'm good to go.

[hnlmorg]

You’re conflating two completely different things.

I’m a retro gamer. I have around 20 systems all hooked up and ready to play from the Atari 2600 through to modern systems like the PS4. In fact I bet I have systems you hadn’t even heard of, and machines that are older than you are.

So I know better than most that consoles can live for decades. But that’s not what people mean when they talk about a consoles life.

What that term means is the period of time that a console is the current generation (and yes, “generation” is the technical term here and not something I made up).

Also decay isn’t a phenomenon exclusive to biology. Plenty of things which aren’t organic can have a life and decay, even though we know they’re not technically a life form. For example stars. But even technology can decay. Capacitors and batteries are the biggest two killers of old technology, and common problems I’ve had to repair in my old hardware. The laser in your PS1 is also a consumable. I’ve had to replace the laser in my PS1 for that very reason. Solder can crack. Any moving parts like motors, fans, and CD/DVD trays can seize up over time too. There’s also sun-bleaching that happens to white and grey casing too, which is thankfully a very easy fix.

[kelvinjps10]

Console is the kind of thing where you upgrade every few years like for obviously games you bought for ps3 or PS4 don't work in the PS5 or Xbox 360 for Xbox one you have to buy one for each console. So people will switch to the competition, you can see on the sales of each consoles where their peak was. People might even get tired of Nintendo,Sony and Microsoft and just go with steam and valve

[TylerE]

Every ps4 game works on ps5.

[newaccountman2]

I agree with your second sentence, and agree that Sony seems like a pretty bad actor as a result of all this, but the first sentence is false and hyperbolic.

It's not a luxury to walk away from a sunk-cost, no matter what % of your past expendable income it represents (I think that was kind of what you were hinting at). Anyone can do it.

[p1necone]

Eh I think you're overstating the level of lock-in here. There's nothing about the platform itself that forces you to stay, it's just the games you've already bought. You can keep the system and just stop buying new games on it.

And most people probably don't replay most games after beating them once, for the handful you do want to replay, you just bust out that console occasionally, or you grab them again in a steam sale to play them on PC instead or something.

[dogwalker5000]

I’m just saying, you can stop buying new games. If enough people do it, Sony will fold.

[chrisco255]

Sony doesnt have a monopoly on gaming. There is PC, mobile, Steam, Nintendo, Apple desktop, etc. There are also retro games consoles like Mod64. You don't invest in a game console it is an entertainment expense. You can sell your used PS5 if you disagree with the direction.

[nirvdrum]

You can’t export save files on PS5. You can’t transfer licenses, so you’ll have to repurchase any games you want to continue playing. For trophy/achievement hunters, those are going to be locked away. And a lot of the online game accounts are locked to the platform so you’ll have to start any progress/reputation/level over.

Yeah, you can walk away, but let’s not pretend it’s the same thing as buying orange juice at a new grocer because your regular one only sells it with pulp now. People aren’t being irrational in being annoyed by this.

[L-four]

They have a monopoly on disks for the PlayStation.

[tomnipotent]

It's amazing how many people throw around the word monopoly without remotely understanding what it means.

[NegativeLatency]

Plenty of PC games, the linux distros that run steam are great too!

[prmoustache]

Can you backup steam games and run them without steam?

[craftkiller]

Many of them, yes. It's up to the individual publisher whether they want to release their game DRM-free on steam. https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_big_list_of_DRM-free_g...

If you want to guarantee that you can backup your PC games and run them without a client, then there is always https://www.gog.com/

[Pxtl]

Just because valve is a benevolent dictator doesn't mean they don't already have the same dictatorship powers that Sony is currently chiseling out for themselves.

I wish NFTs had taken off as a system for managing decentralized transferrable digital purchases instead of being another investment scam.

[brendoelfrendo]

An NFT is superfluous here. If you buy a digital copy, and someone gives you DRM-free files that you can copy and run anywhere you'd like, you have about as much ownership as you can get over a digital good. In this case, an NFT would just serve as an entry in a crypto ledger that you bought the game... which is an alternative to running a digital storefront and tying game purchases to an account, but it doesn't really change the fact that you can only redownload something for so long as it is hosted at the place where you bought it.

[Pxtl]

I mean the NFT as a means of implementing standardized DRM instead of letting companies roll their own copyright laws.

[RIMR]

At least with a PC you have control over the system. You're even freer with Valve because now have the ease of using Linux.

My entire Steam library is backed up to LTO tapes. I can get most everything running without needing Steam.

I will continue to support this business model, because I retain the power to own the system and the data.

[tremon]

> I can get most everything running without needing Steam.

I thought most Steam games relied on remote activation/verification? Can you install and run them on a non-networked machine? If not, your LTO tapes are close to worthless because Valve (or its buyer) can still pull the same trick that Sony did here, with the same effect.

[sylens]

Valve has an incentive to keep being benevolent because consumers have the option of using other stores on the same hardware.

If you have invested into Sony platforms and games, you're stuck. You either write it off and move now, buying hardware during a component crisis, or you keep investing moving forward. On a PC, I might lose access to games on Steam but my hardware will allow me to buy new games on a different storefront.

[saghm]

Proton is open source though (and a lot of the improvements are also upstreamed to Wine, which isn't directly under Valve's control), and you can use it to run third-party games if you want (even ones that are also sold on Steam's storefront). If Valve stopped being benevolent, it would be annoying, but they wouldn't be able to undo most of the improvements we already have.

[account42]

NFTs never would have given you any more power than Steam as at the end of the day the platform still controls what you can access or not.

[Pxtl]

The idea would be that an NFT would provide a platform-agnostic proof-of-ownership to show that you have the right to download the game from a download provider and to satisfy its DRM protection. Basically a replacement for a license key. License keys are not transferable once redeemed, NFTs are. Modern software ownership models allow the software company to write whatever copyright law they choose, controlling length of ownership, terms of use, transferrability, backups, etc.

[lenerdenator]

The writing has been on the wall for a decade now for gaming being a purely rental-driven, consumer-antagonistic segment of the software market.

People have been talking about "walking away" for at least that long.

The soles of those walking shoes are as thick and un-worn as they've ever been.

[dogwalker5000]

If you decide to buy into Sony’s future, make sure you do it with your eyes wide open.

Unlike Valve who has never taken away what people have bought without a refund (to my knowledge), Sony doesn’t deserve that benefit of the doubt:

https://www.techradar.com/streaming/entertainment/this-shoul...

[MindSpunk]

Reminder that Valve's liberal refund policy only exists because they were sued by the Australian government.

[account42]

And it isn't even all that liberal compared to physical stores.

[Loughla]

I'm old enough to remember when people bemoaned the death of physical media, and saw Steam as the death of PC gaming.

Like all things, this too shall pass.

[someonebaggy]

Yes. The new generation will grow up without ever owning any media, and will not be able to conceive of the idea of owning media.

[tadfisher]

I did it when OtherOS was removed. I have yet to miss any game I care about, and PCs have been a better investment overall.

[PaulHoule]

I play Arknights on my iPad but that's the one live service game I have anything to do with.

[spicymaki]

Exactly. Nothing is going to get better until consumers realize they have the power (at least for now).

[JoeAltmaier]

So are cigarettes and liquor. And pot and on and on.

[galleywest200]

The vast majority of goods are luxury goods.

[kjkjadksj]

Insurance will tell you teeth are as well.

[mapontosevenths]

Luxury bones.

[neilv]

> This is a weird marketing strategy. They must feel free to do as they please since they know consumers are trapped.

I've been on PlayStation family since PS2, and used to think I was married to it, with my game library and my player character stuff/gear/creations in various games.

But the platform no longer lets me play many of those games, anyway, whether due to console gen or server shutdowns. And nobody cares about my PlayStation gamer score or trophies. So there's little tying me to the platform for the next game I buy.

Sony, please don't make me move to "Linux" gaming, via Valve/GOG/Epic (since I don't want to endorse Microsoft hegemony over the low-level gaming "standard"). PlayStation should be a beloved brand and platform that can be trusted to keep games working -- not one that throws away history, nostalgia, and community. You already impose rules on publishers, so this is within your power.

Related: Project Aces, I was fairly highly ranked in a couple of the Ace Combat installments, but when you shut down the servers, you took away what I'd invested in. I reluctantly bought AC7, but found I didn't have the heart to invest in it, just to have it taken away again, and I won't be buying AC8 nor anything else in the franchise.

[hnlmorg]

Server shutdowns are a problem regardless of the platform.

There used to be a time when PC games allowed you to connect to random servers. These days Minecraft is the only one that still allows it. And even there, Microsoft go hard on the upselling of their Realms.

Some studios kill their servers after just a couple of years. Even for games that are online first.

[neilv]

Is this a place Sony could differentiate from other platforms?

Contractually require (and technologically support) that the servers are kept running for n years after the last sale, for example?

[someonebaggy]

This week a Microsoft representative told Congress that all Minecraft servers except the ones sponsored by Microsoft are illegal piracy.

[hnlmorg]

It was a trade association not Microsoft. And bullshit like this is the entire reason for trade associations existing.

Microsoft themselves support self-hosting Minecraft servers. As evidenced by the fact that the server software itself is provided as a free download from an official Minecraft (and thus Microsoft branded) site.

[PaulHoule]

"Linux" gaming on Steam deck or Steam in general is a lean-back experience that's got almost nothing in common with the sweaty PC game experience of the past with the big chunky joysticks that were always falling apart and had to be recalibrated all the time and the too-sharp graphics and all.

I picked up some ACER handheld at Best Buy and it was a complete joke, the first thing I saw looked like a Windows PC with comically small fonts. My Steam Deck looks more like a Switch or PS Vita.

[raxxorraxor]

In the long run I think consoles might get replaced to "consolerized" PCs (they are already technically, but I guess we might see more advanced software environments like steam boxes).

Neither Sony nor Microsoft had a consumer orientation and they will likely loose against the competition.

Physical media was a method to have a "plug & play" game, although that changed in recent times. With that I don't think classic consoles can compete, especially with their new price points.

[musicale]

Many Switch / Switch 2 games can still be played offline with just the game card.

[reactordev]

Sony is dead to me now.

[protocolture]

Parasocial relationship with corporation update from love to hate.

[snovymgodym]

I mean the PS3 was launched in 2006.

The fact that the PS store has still been supported on the console for this long is kind of incredible.

[dear-leader]

The PS store enables spending money on the platform. It’s gotta be incredibly easy to justify server expenses for that.

[binsquare]

Sony also used to mock digital only approaches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWSIFh8ICaA

Now at a time when memory and storage prices are at an all time high - they pull a move that directly hurts the customer.

[musicale]

> Official PlayStation Used Game Instructional Video

this is how you don't share games on playstation :(

[Dylan16807]

The storage price isn't really an issue. For the average game it's probably $2 of storage on a hard drive when it's not currently installed on your console. And digital versions see discounts more often.

I'd say screwing up ownership is a much bigger issue.

[donkey_oaty]

I remember when the ps3 released Sony mocked controller rumble as a 'last gen feature'. Now their haptic feedback is the only distinguishing feature of their console.

[extraduder_ire]

If you're only counting ones not on their previous consoles. How easy it is to disassemble and clean is a change from prior playstations too.

[rdschouw]

Also let us not forget the rootkit malware Sony BMG distributed on their audio CDs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

[MoonWalk]

If you hadn't brought that up, I would have.

Sony should not be let off the hook for its offensive (essentially criminal) behavior.

I won't even review Sony's decades-long efforts to undermine industry standards...

[minitech]

Digitally rented content is rented. My music via Bandcamp/iTunes, my games from their developers’ websites/itch.io/GOG, and my ebooks are owned (for the purposes of the “owned”/“rented” distinction people are making here). Not all physical things are owned, either. Wrong distinction. We can ask for better with respect to digital.

[musicale]

This is a very good point. DRM is not the same as digital.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity though around reselling digital downloads the way there is with physical media (first sale doctrine, etc.)

[pseudosavant]

The sad reality of DRM is that only rentals and subscriptions can honestly be done with it. You can guarantee access to a subscription library (Netflix, Xbox Game Pass, etc) for 30 days. You cannot guarantee access 30+ years in the future. And selling access like that is just a lie.

[mchusma]

I do think if you are claiming something is not permanent you should basically have to make some specific claims about the timeliness of it (eg you can use it for at least 10 years or your money back).

[sylware]

This is fraud: they all know what 'to buy' means to own and they are abusing people with it.

A less scammy terminology must be setup then.

[ChrisRR]

It probably reduces the amount of media attention if they do it all at once instead of spreading it out over months

[secretslol]

Utterly brazen they are. You'd think they'd be keeping a low profile after the pulled all of those movies, but no - they are doubling down on the asshattery.