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by croes 31 days ago
Do you show your ID when you buy alcohol?

We have many place in real life where we already have to prove our age or identity but somehow the internet should be excluded

6 comments

Offline and online are not equivalent spaces. They're not symmetric, they don't fail in the same way, and they don't have the same hazards or risks. I say this because I don't think the argument that we should do it online because we do it offline is coherent.

I actually don't have to show my ID when I buy alcohol because I'm old. There's a material difference between an electronic record being submitted, passed through and stored on several different servers, and somebody seeing you and seeing a grey beard and saying, yeah, you can buy that beer. The worst case scenario in real life is that the bouncer at the bar looks at your ID, seems real enough, checks the date, matches the picture, and that's it. There is no record being stored, there is no log. It's not equivalent to the vast majority of online age verification mechanisms in use today.

No I don't. Your reasoning is absurd.

Today I can walk into a shop and buy alcohol without showing my ID.

I can also walk into my local library and read any book I wish to, some with adult themes. I could do this as a teenage too. I also did this in my own school library.

Demanding to see ID to access online content is a terrible idea and it is the parent's responsibility to look after children. It should be an understanding between the parent and child on what they should be accessing online. If that breaks down then the parent should do their job of being a parent. Take the device away and punish the child.

Can you buy a gun, a car, heroin? Why have restrictions on anything for anyone? Certainly everyone is a rational actor who chooses the best thing for society and would never take advantage of ignorant youth. Especially in a place like a library where they have unrestricted access to the ideals developing in a child’s mind. /sarc
Do you genuinely believe there is anything remotely as dangerous as driving a car or shooting up heroin a teenager can do by simply typing a URL into the address bar and pressing enter. Do you seriously believe anything you said here is remotely comparable?
> anything remotely as dangerous as driving a car or shooting up heroin a teenager

Instagram

Absurd hyperbole, and I hate Meta products
buying alcohol without showing an ID might be possible in many places, but it's not a universal right.
Not for the past 20 years. I also don't participate in Patronscan and other similar surveillance operations.

That is beside the point. I'm talking about the incoherent argument about a parent's supposed obligation to stop parenting and the government taking over. There are three premises here asserted by the author: 1) the child's need for independence, 2) a parent's duty to stop parenting, and 3) the government stepping in. Number 1 is contrary to 3, and I don't agree with either 2 or 3. What do you think?

The government isn’t stepping in, the government enforces checks by site owners like it enforces age checks in liquor stores.

The point is not if the access to the internet for children should be limited but how.

Given the number of cameras nowadays a zero knowledge age checks may be more privacy friendly than you personally buying something in a store

And none of them are in my living room, nor do they belong there.

The government does not get to put child locks on my liquor cabinet, or even keep me from leaving booze out on the counter. They get to restrict businesses from selling to people without identification. Note that this has already always been the case on the internet, too.

Use that logic to sell phones. Don't limit civil liberties to compensate for failures of parental supervision.
Those places don’t track you and keep a registry and copy of your information
Depending on where you live this may be untrue. In Washington state I hand them my id and they scan the code on the back. There is every possibility that they store it and notify the state that I bought a bottle of rum.