[mrtksn]

That's my point, US bans free speech through property ownership. Just because you banned speech through property ownership rights doesn't mean you have not banned it. Free speech is non-existent on US platforms and in US it is tucked away so it is impotent against the current ruling class.

In Berlin, Paris or Amsterdam you won't be visited by the police for a sign that says "JAIL OUR WAR CRIMINALS", you will be visited for one that says something like "Finish the work Hitler started" or "Burn the Mosques" and depending on the context nothing will happen or you may get fine or jail sentence.

In US you will have much more trouble for your undesired speech than in Europe, just more indirectly.

[aa-jv]

> Just because you banned speech through property ownership rights doesn't mean you have not banned it. Free speech is non-existent on US platforms and in US it is tucked away so it is impotent against the current ruling class.

No. You still have courts protecting your rights and if indeed there is suppression, the courts will defend you. The US Constitution is still a thing. There is no such recourse in Europe.

BTW, I concur with your cynicism, but the situation in Europe is far more dire - especially if you contrast the French vs. German vs. Dutch vs. Austrian results, which are in quite distinct conflict with the ideal we both wish for.

[mrtksn]

There are court in Turkey to protect you too, you stay anywhere from 30 days to 8 months in prison and then the court says you exercised your free speech rights. Similar stuff in US, people in control destroy your life and career then you are deemed actually innocent sorry for the trouble.

That's not free speech, just because eventually you might be acknowledged that you have right to say something doesn't at all mean that you can do it.

[aa-jv]

The price of freedom is constant alertness and constant willingness to fight the state.

>That's not free speech, just because eventually you might be acknowledged that you have right to say something doesn't at all mean that you can do it.

Yes it is, because once the speech is made, it is free to be propagated. That fascist elements use that free speech to attack you is one thing - and indeed, a government which does not protect its citizens' free speech in favour of other entities, is a repressive one.

But, that is the price of freedom - fight back with whatever tools the state gives you! The USA does, in fact, have tools for its citizens to protect free speech and there are an infinity of examples.

However, throughout history, it is proven: you lose a right once you stop exercising it.

So your totalitarian-defeatism is actually manifesting the thing you're complaining about, yo.