[steelframe]

I'm one of the greybeards who has the 2400 BAUD modem negotiation tone sequences emblazened in my neurons.

For a while I've been meaning to set up some Wireguard connections among some of my systems. Being as busy as I am with work and family, I've relinquished that to Tailscale for now.

Sure, I could have sat down and jumped through the hoops to get everything set up and working across my various hosts, including network routes, firewall rules, key pairs, systemd units, and so forth. But the "cheap and easy" alternative was right there and worked (except when it forces re-authentication).

With LLM agents, I was able to effortlessly analyze my existing network and produce tailored scripts to do precisely what I wanted. All I had to do was review the scripts for potential security issues and what not. Looking at the script, there are 3 or 4 specific tweaks that needed to be made to my network routing rules given my network topology. I could have read a few man pages and iterated on the script by hand to eventually get there after maybe an hour or two of futzing.

The availability and effectiveness of the agents is simply too tempting for me. I'm not sure what this means about my skillset, or if that even matters any more. I am fairly confident that, so long as my brain still works well enough, I'll always be able to RTFM and figure things like this out myself. At this rate I wonder whether my kids will have the same ability. And I also wonder how much that will matter.

Regardless, I'm still helping them figure things out the "old way" without over-reliance on LLMs. One thing I'm fairly certain about is that failure to develop problem-solving skills can only put them in a worse position in life, no matter how capable AI becomes.

[switchbak]

The thing is - everyone complains about AI stealing our attention and understanding. But you can just as easily use an LLM as a tool to gain a deeper understanding. It's just the default path for most folks is "Hey clanker, do the thing" rather than "Hello clanker, please tell me about how that thing works".

I've done at least a little of the latter, and it's amazing how underrated it is as an educational tool - especially for the solo individual.

[tines]

And you can use a TV to read books, but nobody does.

Every technology has ways it can be used, and ways it wants to be used. This one wants to be used in a way that produces outcomes we won't like.

[switchbak]

That’s the “diets don’t work” line. I’m not denying that most people use AI for the path of least resistance, but I am saying that there’s more potential than just that, and it’s almost entirely overlooked in the broad debate.

[tines]

Bad counterexample, c.f. the current obesity epidemic and the popularity of GLP-1s.

I get what you're saying, it's just that I think what you're saying is not overlooked, it's simply insignificant to the debate about the effect of these tools on society. Your argument comes off to me like someone saying "everyone is complaining about how these cigarettes cause cancer, but you can just as easily use lit cigarettes to warm your hands on a cold day. This is what everyone's missing in this debate."

I don't think we can change each others' minds with talk, we'll just have to see how it plays out in the coming decades.

[switchbak]

That's precisely why it's a good example. It's always taken work to lose weight, just because it's not common doesn't mean it's impossible. The common rhetoric loses that nuance, that's my point.

I didn't say anything else, you're reworking what I'm saying here and distorting my message.

[hexasquid]

I think what you are describing is covered by either an E reader or the giant collection of how-to explantions on YouTube?

[tines]

Videos aren’t books, and ereaders aren’t TVs.

The book/written word is also a technology that has preferences on how it’s used and transformations that it imposes on its users, and they’re much different than those of TV or computers.

[jjk7]

Nobody has time anymore to read a textbook.

[spopejoy]

> I could have read a few man pages and iterated on the script by hand to eventually get there after maybe an hour or two of futzing

I'm not even sure losing this method is such a bad thing. Tooling, build scripts, home networking -- any learning you gain from stumbling through man pages and trial-and-error at best results in some hard-won, single-purpose scripts, the knowledge will evaporate instantly b/c everything is so bespoke, "fix once and forget" until you have new gear and have to solve new problems years later.

Presenting a well-specified problem thoroughly to an LLM, then analyzing results and testing the output, is valid problem solving.

[StanislavPetrov]

>I'm one of the greybeards who has the 2400 BAUD modem negotiation tone sequences emblazened in my neurons.

Making the jump from 300 baud to 2400 felt like magic!

[steelframe]

I started on a faulty 1200 BAUD modem that would only connect at 300 BAUD. And I used to load my programs off a cassette tape.

If we keep this up, someone's bound to jump in with a brag about memory cores and punchcards.

[StanislavPetrov]

My friend's dad got a 1200 baud modem when they first came out for some obscene amount of money. Back then Compuserve used to charge by your connection speed. I was mowing lawns to pay $6.25 (~$20) an hour to play British Legends at 300 baud and he was paying ~$12 (~$38!!) an hour to connect at 1200. Plus phone bill fees, which weren't negligible back then, even for local calls!

https://www.chicagotribune.com/1987/05/31/compuserve-sees-th...

[marak830]

I don't think they will be jumping anywhere TBH.

(young-un with the 28.8k starter here, so I just need some stretching to keep up with you old fellas :P)