[greenleafone7]

What is weird in all of this is why is the US obsessed with israel so much exactly! Was it a random choice; did they had a random number generator pick it? Why are they not going to such lengths for other random countries in the opposite side of the world for example? And if an official's number one priority is not the people that pay him and have granted him his power, should he be in that position?

The US is turning into a planetary joke and it's sad to see.

[lr0]

The US "obsession" with Israel is not "random" or arbitrary at all, it's quite systematic and there are so much literature on that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Fore...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUQ_0MubbcM [Why the US. supports Israel / Noam Chomsky]

[vrganj]

* AIPAC is one of the biggest donors to US political campaigns.

* Entanglement of tech industries

* Israel serves as an outpost of US imperialism in the Middle East.

* Shared understanding with fellow Settler-Colonialist state

* On a related note, it's a country with a big white-reading population in a mostly brown neighborhood.

* Evangelicals believe Israel is where the battle that rings in the Second Coming will happen.

[pelorat]

AIPAC is more than a PAC. Mossad involvement is all but guaranteed.

[sequoia]

People think AIPAC is some all powerful unique lobbying group, in fact they're not even in the top 10 major lobbyists. Did you know SpaceX gave 5x as much as AIPAC in 2024? AIPAC was also outspent by Coinbase, by Ripple, and several other companies[0]. And this "18th largest lobbyist" position is after a post-october-7 surge in spending. Pre-october-7 (2022) they were ranked forty sixth in terms of spending.

Can you name 10 of the groups who spent more than them? How about five? The question worth asking is why are people obsessed with demonizing the AIPAC in particular and singling it out as the one or primary 'evil lobbying group' when there are tens or dozens of groups that spent more. The 2024 AIPAC spending number (50 mil, which is donated by American voters, not foreign money) is 1/8th of the $400 million plan Qatar (a foreign government) gave Trump in 2025.

People focus on AIPAC specifically because they have a problem with Jews. Jews and other Israel supporting Americans are allowed to pool money and lobby just like anyone else. the fact that people think they shouldn't be allowed to play this game, the same one everyone else is playing in US politics, is what should be questioned.

0: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/top-organizat...

[mrhottakes]

"You can't criticize lobbying unless you can name all the more active lobbyists" is a very strange concept. Have you thought this one all the way through?

[khriss]

> The question worth asking is why are people obsessed with demonizing the AIPAC in particular and singling it out as the one or primary 'evil lobbying group'

Is your assertion that no one is allowed to criticize AIPAC unless they can 'prove' to you that others who spend more than them are not somehow worse?

[sequoia]

No, I'm saying people obsessed with AIPAC to the exclusion of all other lobbying groups are not motivated primarily by an objection to lobbying.

I'm also saying the narrative that "AIPAC controls the gov't via lobbying" which many people believe is incoherent because Coinbase must control the gov't even more by this thinking.

If you think people aren't obsessed with AIPAC you are not following US politics.

[khriss]

> If you think people aren't obsessed with AIPAC you are not following US politics.

I think a simpler explanation might be just that there is a lot of attention being paid to why the US seems beholden to Israel to the extent that it would be willing to risk it's relationship with other allies that provide far more in return.

Exhibit A is the Iran war where the US essentially abandoned it's middle east and far east allies (to the extent to moving interceptors from Korea and Japan) to defend Israel. Other regional allies were largely left to fend for themselves.

Seeing all this, people are legitimately asking, what exactly does the US get in return for the enormous support, both direct and indirect that it provides to Israel. Given it's role, naturally AIPAC is going to be central to these conversations.

[theshrike79]

And specifically agreeing to a war, which every single president before has said "fuck no" because they understood the wider ramifications.

Fun fact: Not a single Kia vehicle sold in Finland has had a tow hook in it for 6 months - they're ALL stuck in Hormuz.

[sequoia]

> the US seems beholden to Israel

Can you explain how Trump's MoU fits into this "beholden to Israel" model? This deal goes directly against Israel's interests and wishes.

Biden forced Israel to stay their hand during their war with Hamas, for example telling them not to go into Rafah, which delayed them for some time. So is Israel controlled by the US, or is it the other way around? (When they did go into Rafah, they found both Israeli hostages and Hamas leadership, proving that Biden was wrong for telling them not to take the fight there.)

[mthoms]

How many of those other groups have openly lobbied for war? I have no doubt there are a few others TBH. The oil industry comes to mind.

The point being, it's not just the amount of money at play. That's only part of it. But you know that.

[vrganj]

Maybe people focus on AIPAC because they have a problem with any or all of the other bullet points I mentioned that AIPAC supports and enables and that your whole long message never addressed?

[lenkite]

AIPAC is also the unique lobbying group that effectively threatens US congressfolk on X. After Massie lost, they went ahead and boasted that "elected officials are free to disagree with us, but only briefly". They deleted that post after extensive outrage, then said it was "fake" a few weeks later. But way too many independent people across the entire political spectrum took screenshots of that timeline.

[pphysch]

AIPAC is just the most well-known and representative entity in a large constellation of a hostile foreign lobby that has somehow avoided accountability under FARA.

Qatar didn't spend 9 figures getting Trump elected, but an Israeli gambling magnate did.

[sequoia]

AIPAC is not foreign, this is another misconception/lie. AIPAC is an American lobby funded by Americans.

[pphysch]

Everybody knows which country AIPAC is loyal to, and it's not the USA. The bad faith arguments undermine your hasbara.

[kjs3]

The butwhatabout-ism is strong with this one...

[Hikikomori]

So they're getting their moneys worth.

[sequoia]

This is a great example of the prejudice (pre-judging) at play when it comes to Israel. One starts with the conclusion ("Israel/Jews are evil and controlling the government with money") then works backwards to build an argument.

"They are spending so much, that's why they control the government!" They (American citizens funding AIPAC) actually spending much less than many other lobbying groups. "Aha- they're so conniving they can control the government even without being in the top 10 lobbies!"

There's no winning against this "logic" because the conclusion has been decided ahead of time & any evidence is interpreted as supporting that conclusion, no matter which way it goes.

[Hikikomori]

This is a great example of perpetual victimhood of Zionists.

[electriclove]

Interesting how the Overton window on this has shifted over the recent past. These are questions one wouldn’t dare verbalize not that long ago

[greenleafone7]

Even the "wouldn't dare to verbalize" is weird to me! I thought we had governments to help with defense, and the budget, but now we are at the point were some guy somewhere is dictating what I can and can't say, what I can and can't eat. Odd how we ended up like this.

[dgellow]

> The US is turning into a planetary joke

We are way past the point where we have to use the present continuous tense

[greenleafone7]

I maintain hope

[tencentshill]

Britain and the US created the state of Israel. There have been many commitments made since then.

[godwinson__4-8]

The answer: Evangelical Christians

The same reliable voting block that thinks the current president is basically the second coming despite the fact he is an obvious nihilist. They are obsessed with Israel for similarly delusional reasons. I have few things in agreement with Tucker Carlson. But the way he made Mike Huckabee or Ted Cruz squirm on basic questions about Israel was delightful. These people are motivated by little more than blind faith which resembles a cult to any thinking person. Couple this with American anti-democratic compromises (connecticut compromise which allows sparsely populated, evangelical states to get outsize representation) and you have your answer. These small states are also easier to control. AIPAC actually doesn't spend that much money. It turns out to buy a Senator in the middle of nowhere is pretty cheap, and a great ROI. A Senator from Arkansas has the same voting power as a Senator from New York. Of course, for the time being New York is also bought and paid for. That may be changing. Part of the reason primaries in NYC have gotten so much attention in the last month is because of what it portends for a potential primary against Chuck Schumer. While he is not an evangelical, he is a beneficiary of AIPAC.

Since he's not an evangelical and is capable of critical thought he did call for new elections in Israel in a somewhat notable speech in 2024. It was notable as a public criticism of Netanyahu even if it was pretty mild. People of Chuck Schumer's generation who are not evangelicals still have a bias towards Israel because of post WWII guilt. America essentially inherited the power, but also the responsibility of the terminated British empire in WWII's wake. Unlike young progressive Jews who are perfectly capable of recognizing two things can be true - a state can both be Jewish and genocidal - older Americans have a bias to buying into the fiction that Israel is some uniquely vulnerable nation that needs protecting because they have parents that were around to know America largely sat on its hands during the genocide against the Jews in WWII. Americans did not want to get involved until after Pearl Harbor, and even then, anti-semitism was not exactly out of the American mainstream. And there was a time where in the Middle East, Israel was not the obvious regional superpower that it is today. So the American intelligentsia was also largely behind Israel, even if for very different reasons than evangelicals.

But even these Chuck Schumer types have basically been forced to come to terms with the fact that the current Israeli leadership is extremely far right, and frankly, pretty much as nuts (if not more) as people like Mike Huckabee. That's why again, the real answer is the evangelicals. As with Trump, they don't care if a president or a nation careens off course. They believe they are doing what their invisible friend wants. You can't really argue with that type of crazy.

[greenleafone7]

From what I understand the 'current' leadership in Israel-even with how they behave-they are still the most left of all possible options. The ones that could come after it are even more extreme.

[godwinson__4-8]

You are both misinformed and also correct.

It would be more accurate to say the current administration in Israel is only in power because it has entered into coalition with the far right. This does not make it "the most left of all possible options".

There are certainly more "mainstream" options available though I'm not sure calling them "left" would be accurate. However it is also true that the Israeli far right is not going anywhere and has only grown in power. It is not like they are a key part of the current government by accident. They may have more or less power in the future, who knows. For his part Netanyahu has embraced the far right because they were willing to support him even as he was being indicted by the courts. Recall the protests against the government in Tel Aviv not that long ago [1]. In this way he really is like Trump, teaming up with right wing forces to hold the courts at bay for personal reward.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Israeli_judicial_reform_p...