[tristanj]

> In Sweden, with DST, the sunrise is at 4am in summer and 8am in winter.

In Sweden, in summer without DST, sunrise in Stockholm would happen ~2:30 AM. In the current system, with DST, sunrise happens around 3:30 AM, an improvement.

In winter, if Sweden kept permanent DST (which is what many advocate for), sunrise in December would happen at around 9:45 AM. In the current system (shifting time back during winter), it happens around 8:45 AM, a more reasonable time.

You realize you're literally proving my point?

> Just set it so noon is actually noon.

Pretty meaningless to advocate for this, then every longitude would have its own timezone, defeating the purpose of timezones.

[toxik]

Well, you certainly got a combative tone. I don't care if it's 8:45 or 9:45, it is what it is. You don't get more or fewer hours of sun, it's dark when you go to work, it's dark when you get home from work. With DST. Noon at noon is pretty much what the time zones are aiming for, yes.

[tristanj]

> You don't get more or fewer hours of sun

Technically correct but false in practice. DST shifts sunlight hours to when people tend to be awake, giving the average person more hours of sun per day.

Sun received while asleep is not useful.