[haunter]

LTSC, surprised the post doesn't mention that. No forced feature updates, no unnecessary preinstalled apps. I'm using them for years without any problems. There was only one extreme edge case where an app didn't work because it was hard coded to only work on Windows 10 Pro and couldn't do anything with the LTSC version.

Yes you can't get it legally as a regular end user but MSFT also doesn't care about piracy either. They don't lose money on you (they rather keep you as a Windows user than switch to another platform).

Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 is supported until 2032, Windows 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2024 is supported until 2034.

[nairboon]

> Yes you can't get it legally as a regular end user

That's why it's not mentioned, it's not a product for "normal users", the audience described in the post.

[haunter]

But that's also kind of the point too: Windows Lite exists but MSFT is "gatkeeping" it to enterprise users only. Probably because they are paying for it.

[CamperBob2]

Not even enterprise customers are allowed to use LTSC. Only hardware OEMs.

It's asinine. They could charge $1000+ for LTSC licenses, but my data and digital sovereignty is apparently worth even more to them.

[VitalKoshalew]

That's incorrect. Windows LTSC rights are included into Windows Enterprise E3 subscription as well as a VL (EA, MPSA etc.) perpetual license. [1]

1. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/windows-...

[CamperBob2]

That's incorrect. The article merely addresses availability, not licensing.

"Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC is designed for devices that have strict change-management policies with only security and critical bug fixes." There is no way for anyone, enterprise or otherwise, to license LTSC for conventional use on their own PC. LTSC IoT is the successor to Windows CE, strictly licensed for embedded applications like kiosks, ATMs, slot machines and the like.

When you do license LTSC for a device, you obtain the .iso the same way as all other volume-licensed versions. That's all the article at your URL is talking about.

[liamwire]

Seconding the correction that LTSC is not restricted to hardware OEMs. I work for a multinational construction materials company and we image LTSC machines day in day out.

[CamperBob2]

Not legally, you don't. Not unless this has changed drastically since Windows 10.

[liamwire]

We were doing LTSC for Windows 10 years back as well, so I'm genuinely curious about any resources on this. We're very by-the-book and I'd be incredibly shocked to find we're actually in violation of any laws/ToS.

[wjnc]

Economically, you would probably be the only customer (stated willingness to pay can differ from market outcome ;) paying that amount. Your stated willingness to pay has little relation to the true value of our data and digital sovereignty to Microsoft.

A funny estimate is possible though. MSFT 2750 G$ market cap and 550 M business users. That’s 5 k$ per user. Grossly misrepresenting everything (AI bubble, other cashflows, …) but it is a ‘directionally right’.

[aaronsung]

Indeed there are much more customers than you could imagine in the non-profit/ government sectors paying for that. There are a lot of compliance regulations regarding to data governance that force them to use a clean and lite LTSC version of Windows.

[CamperBob2]

Complete BS. No one is using LTSC outside of embedded applications.

[Melatonic]

You can get it legally. Just gotta find a smaller VAR and convince them to sell you a single seat for testing purposes

[jasomill]

It's not cheap, but getting it legally is easy, and you don't need a VAR.

Specifically, you can buy a single-seat Microsoft 365 E3 subscription directly from Microsoft for $432/year, which includes a license for a single user to use Windows Enterprise, including LTSC, on up to 5 PCs (along with other stuff, mainly Office).

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/enterprise/e3

(click "try for free")

[pipes]

I'm using ltsc windows 11 and yes it is much better than one of my other pcs which has pro on it.

However I did use windows 10 ltsc for quite a few years until I hit a dll issue with an old game that turned out to be unresolvable as far as I could tell at the time. So much so I switched to pro (I have a work visual studio subscription so I have access to all versions of windows for free). I can't for the life of me remember what dll or what game it was. But I tend to play older games so probably not something many will hit the same problem.

[MarkSweep]

I wonder if they don’t include all the application compatibility stuff in LTSC. It would be a good way to make the version work for its intended purpose (as part of a larger appliance or industrial tool with purpose built software), while making it much less useful for ordinary purposes.

[Tarsul]

Star Wars Episode 1 Racer stopped working once I updated my Win10 to Win10 LTSC. (have enough games that do work, so I will not change again until 2032 or rather until Steam discontinues Win10 support)

[hyperman1]

In the EU, anyone can legally get a second hand LTSC license. See e.g.

https://en.windowsnoticias.com/Where-to-get-cheap-and-offici...

[martin_a]

Do these versions get regular updates or are they expected to run on air-gapped machines so nobody really has to take care of them?

[haunter]

Yes but no feature updates, so for example LTSC 2021 is "stuck" on 21H2 from 2021. But it gets the regular security and bugfix updates, last one was June 9th

See here (Enterprise and IoT Enterprise LTSB/LTSC editions):

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/rel...

[jeffrallen]

No feature updates sounds like a feature these days. It's why I use a crappy old Debian install too.

[pipes]

Genuine question , what does that mean, stuck on what from 2021? Compared to? Thanks :)

[haunter]

Will never get the final feature update (22H2) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history#Ver...

Technically it can break some apps if they are hard coded to only work with 22H2. Probably happens with some video games and anti cheat software ("always needs the latest update")

There is a Windows 11 LTSC version which works the same.

[pipes]

Thanks. Did some googling too and it makes sense just one thing, what does "There is a Windows 11 LTSC version which works the same." Mean?

[haunter]

No bloat, no preinstalled apps, not getting feature updates.

[homebrewer]

They receive updates on time. I've been supporting a few LTSC machines for friends and relatives, haven't ever seen them receive any unnecessary junk through Windows Update. Just bug and vulnerability fixes.

[TiredOfLife]

They get only security fixes. So if there is some system component that is buggy under some circumstances it stays that way. Part of native windows development is constant workarounds around old buggy dlls

[Melatonic]

There's even Win 11 LTSC although I have yet to test it

[pdntspa]

Yeah but who gets that legally

[okanat]

Businesses with volume licensing agreements and Kiosk manufacturers can get the licenses pretty easy. Then can even negotiate a lower cost per device.