[watwut]

I did not said Armstrong was the first cyclist to dope. I said he made a real innovation in the world of doping. There were computers in 1975, but can you agree with me that several people brought in innovations between then and now? It is the same thing.

Doping existed prior Armstrong, Armstrong revolutionized it and led worsening of the doping situation. His teammates were bullied by him personally to dope. That includes testimonies of people who left for that reason.

> or that the Tour de France actually wanted to catch him or any other winner at all.

Yes, plenty of them actually wanted to and Americans were acting butthurt. There were regular accusations of French just being jealous, like it is an international offense to suspect and American sportsman could cheat.

[harry8]

Oh go on.

Look down that list of winners and the list of top finishers for two decades prior to Armstrong and the amount of doping among them that we actually found about and seriously try to make the case that Armstrong is the reason for "cheat or don't bother showing up."