[Terr_]

> the current capitalistic (?) model? Surely we would say the market is efficient

I'd like to highlight a a fundamental contradiction between "free[ly moving] markets" versus "free [to do what you want] markets."

1. The mathematically efficient market involves perfect information and restrictions on what you can do. No secret prices, no hidden NDA'ed transactions, no hidden ownership for straw-trades, etc.

2. The do-what-you-want market does allow you to "freely" do those things, but it isn't the efficient kind because of all the chicanery.

I often see an equivocation going on, where people use the features of #1 to promote what is actually #2.

[microgpt]

This is also the contradiction between "free markets" (which has always meant markets that move freely, with low friction, and has never meant you were free to add friction to the market) and "capitalism" (which is a system where much of society is controlled by whoever has the most capital).

[Terr_]

Yep, hence "Capitalists Hate Capitalism" [0], and if we want to keep the core thing (as opposed to Manoralism or Feudalism in a mask) the participants can't be allowed to destroy it with monopolies, monopsonies, and regulatory-capture.

[0] https://locusmag.com/feature/cory-doctorow-capitalists-hate-...

[microgpt]

But if capitalists can't have unlimited power then is it really capitalism? Capitalism is defined by capitalists having most of the power in a society.

[Terr_]

I think if you proceed in that "unlimited power" direction, what happens is you land inside regions for which we already have other--much older--words (Manoralist, Feudal, Monarchy, Despotic, etc.)