[t0mas88]

Consider it from a European perspective: The US under this administration is more unreliable than China. If Trump decides tomorrow that he's unhappy about something he'll pull some random other thing to bully the other side. You can't do business with that.

Rebuilding trust and foreign relationships is going to take a long time after Trump is gone.

[kulahan]

I suppose it could be easier to approach a relationship in which the other party is simply known to be an enemy, rather than an ally which might occasionally take a left turn.

[abroszka33]

As a European I still prefer US over China.

[sschueller]

But why?

There are no Chinese military personnel and bases in Europe. The Chinese have not tried to take European land by force and China is also quite stable. It won't change it's mind every 4 years and negate international treaties that have been signed. I also don't recall China invading another country and/or kidnapping leaders of a foreign state in recent history. China also does not control the global reserve currency and can not unilaterally impose debilitating sanction on countries such as Cuba causing the death of thousands of innocent people because of some historical beef.

Yes, China does not have a good human rights record, they imprison a lot of political dissidence but then who are we comparing them too? The US has a 5x worse per capita prison population than China and a horrific human rights record.

What exactly bothers you so much about China that the US does not?

[WarmWash]

China has a single leader with absolute power.

The irony is that the US is currently getting so much flak because it's leader is trying (and failing, EOs only go so far) to become what Xi Jinpeng is to China.

So if you want to put all your eggs in Xi's basket alone, go ahead. But if he has a stroke tomorrow and thinks China would be best off making pool toys, all your eggs will be smashed in one instant.

[stanac]

> The Chinese have not tried to take European land by force

What did US do? Are you referring to Kosovo?

For context, I am European using both US and Chinese models, not rooting for one side or the other (but prefer openness of Chinese models).

[sschueller]

Greenland, Svalbard, Falklands and Sazan Island in just the last two years.

[kulahan]

Could you imagine if the US actually tried to take these by force, instead of in “meany weenie words” form?

[theplumber]

I think the Europeans have had some bad experiences with the communist system so naturally they are not very keen to any get communist influence.

Once China can twist your arm you can be sure they will. Just mention democracy to them and you will see what comes next.

[chmod775]

Most Europeans do not think about some ill-defined "communist threat" at all. The majority of negative opinions about China stem from economic worries.

Also FYI: the CCP has officially adopted the designation "socialist democracy" for themselves*, so I don't think you're going to bother them much by using that term. You'll have to get more specific about what you think their "democracy" should look like for them to start giving you the side-eye.

* Many places that are not really recognizable as democracies from a western POV do this. People, we have democracy at home!

[theplumber]

You are off the rails. Ask China why they don’t like Taiwan’s political system, or better why they don’t adopt it to make the “unification” more attainable. The Communist party is everything in China.

[dgellow]

China is an authoritarian ethno nationalist state-capitalist system. They are so far from anything remotely communist. The only thing communist about it is the name of their mono party

[win311fwg]

> They are so far from anything remotely communist. The only thing communist about it is the name of their mono party

They are far from anything remotely communist except by the one and only thing that defines communist? "Communist" has only ever referred to a political party.

Are you confusing "communist" with "communism"? The latter has held dual meaning, both referring to a nation under rule by a Communist party and an imagined sci-fi world where post-scarcity has taken hold. Obviously we remain far from achieving post-scarcity. However, nobody has ever claimed China has. In context, we know that the political party is the point of focus.

[dgellow]

You’re the one who seems to be confused. When china liberalized it kept the esthetic of communism, while shifting to a state capitalism system. Communism is about control of means of production. China has adopted a capitalistic economy

[theplumber]

They pretty much like to confiscate your property and or force you “donate” your profit (see Alibaba for a very good example), make you disappear, enforce censorship and all that stuff very familiar to European communist regimes. They may be different flavours of communism but they all stink.

[kulahan]

You literally cannot own land, there are no private schools, and billionaires exist at the pleasure of the state. They call themselves communist (to varying degrees, but they absolutely do). What a bad troll attempt.