[jmspring]

We will be hopping over to Italy/France/or Croatia in the next year or so. Work will not be the motivator, but we both have options.

In the states during late covid, I thought the downtime would be good to do a second masters in something unrelated to working in software. I chose a remote program with a univeristy here in the states, I did the first year, but it reminded me that studying - especially a program unrelated to anything you have currently done - is actually not easy.

I chose Geology. I have BS/BA in Comp Eng and Chemistry and an MS in Comp Eng. So this was personal interest.

Revisiting math I hadn't used in awhile was the easy part. Making the time, while working, reminded my why I also ended up ABD (all but dissertation - toward PHD) post masters. Sometimes your brain needs to relax.

Glad it worked for you. And the European Universities are significantly cheaper than Universities in the states (this was a state univerisity which is - per state - considered a step above a state school. For instance a UC vs a CSU in california).

[mishellaneous]

so you go to university just for the joy of learning?

to be clear, i think that's cool, and i might try it at some point.

but how do you deal with the fact that university, in practice, is not "for the joy of learning"?

for most people there, students and professors, it's more like "just a job". and this does have an effect. colleagues that only want to pass the test and are watching out for their careers (or even worse, don't even care about anything and are there because of societal expectations) do not make good learning companions. professors who are very dispassionate about the subject don't want you taking up their time with fancy questions and administer dumb tests such that studying for the test is useless beyond passing the course.

(to be clear i'm not criticizing these people directly. obviously, i understand that bills have to be paid -- after all, i took some fun electives, not a degree in fun)

personally, during my time in university i did try a lot of elective courses "for the joy". it forced me a schedule, which was good, because it's something i struggled with self-studying. a few times, professors offered some real gems of knowledge which i wouldn't have found otherwise. and obviously, in practical classes, i got to play stuff i otherwise wouldn't. but the battle against the bullshit took up most of my time and energy.

[drakonka]

I started doing this after moving to a university town at the end of 2024. Just taking random evening courses that sounded interesting. Having never studied past high school, it's been excellent! My first ever course was on nuclear weapons and disarmament and it was fascinating - we had professors with such a huge amount of experience researching and working directly with disarmament negotiations, policies, inspection missions, etc. Then it was a biology course with the most passionate teacher I've ever met. Last term I took a cosmology course and learned a ton about cosmology from different perspectives. My professors have all been great in the few courses I've done so far, and I don't pay attention to other students so much aside from when necessary for group work.

[SiempreViernes]

> but how do you deal with the fact that university, in practice, is not "for the joy of learning"?

I think this strongly depends on the subject you study, most people in mechanical engineering will have a very different attitude to people studying world literature or astrophysics.

[badpun]

In my country studies are free, which means humanities (like "world literature") are full of young people who had no idea what to do with themselves, so they chose a major in something vaguely interesting and not very demanding, mostly so that they get to extend their youth by a couple of years (as parents will often support them while they get their degree, which means not having to work).

[retired]

I’m guessing Nordics?

[badpun]

Poland.

[mishellaneous]

good to know, thanks. it does make sense.

there's still the professors though. the courses may not necessarily be different from their point of view.

also, what do you make of physics grads going to work on finance? doesn't strike as very "scholarly" of them, at first.

[olsondv]

Physics is applying math to Model phenomena. Finance is already numbers so it’s a good fit. If you are insinuating the money corrupts it, they’re paid for the skills they developed. Are medical doctors less noble because they make massive salaries?

[mishellaneous]

we were explicitly talking about people who went to university "for the joy of learning", instead of, as was cited as one of the examples, to prepare themselves for a good career, and how the latter can detract from the experience of the former.

physics students were cited as examples of people who went to university "for the joy of learning". i mentioned the existence of a path from a physics education to a very well-paying career which is moreover not generally considered intellectually stimulating, which suggests (though certainly not proves) the existence of (some -- though certainly not necessarily all) physics students who are not really there "for the joy of learning" -- which again, was one of the concerns i originally cited.

if you are or know a physics grad who studied physics "for the joy of learning" and then worked on finance and you think i'm not correct (say, because finance is actually intellectually stimulating, or that you were really into learning when in school but now are more focused on your career (i actually know a bunch of people for whom this is one is true, now that i think of it), or...), then by all means feel free to share your story, as this is literally what my question was about.

certainly questions can be raised about "corruption" and "nobility", as you did, but i did not intend to do that.

[kelipso]

> Are medical doctors less noble because they make massive salaries?

Aren’t they? Would you say a doctor who works for no money is more noble? I would.

[SiempreViernes]

Here's an article where a physics grad himself is calling being a quant as "the dark side", it's from last year but the expression is much older.

https://www.colorado.edu/physics/2025/09/22/quantum-physics-...

At the end of the day part of what makes (theoretical) physics "scholarly" is the poor job prospects outside of academia, but there simply aren't enough positions for everyone graduating with a masters and they have to find some job eventually. Being a quant certainly beats becoming weapon designers.

[jmspring]

I nearly triple majored (or a minor) because I took Lit classes for fun when doing my Bachelors. Due to the impacted nature of that school now, I don't think it would be possible to duplicate what I did. Sometimes, for me, having a bit of structure helps focus on an interest - undergrad it was literature (beyond other courses, work, and being social - not sleeping much was I guess helpful at the time).

When I spent about 8 years living in a remote area with a lot of old mines, etc. exploring rocks, having a mining claim, etc was interesting and it was not directly related to work. So, trying Geology made some sense because I had an interest.

Yes the near Lit minor and my second Bachelors (chemistry) were literally for fun - but there was a roundedness to not just staring at computers all the time.

Different people have different interests and approaches.

Also costs when I was doing the initial schooling wasn't as bad as it is now (a TAing job, working in a lab, and maybe some part time tech support) covered most bills. Rent, tuition, and other expenses were under 10k for the year - even at a UC - yes this was awhile ago. My step-daughter is looking at closer to $30k a year (give or take) for a CSU.

[ErigmolCt]

Geology is a great choice. I sometimes think the best subjects to study are the ones that have nothing to do with your job, but they're also the hardest to justify when your brain is already tired from work

[gib444]

> Work will not be the motivator, but we both have options.

Which work visa did you apply for? Or do you have an EU passport?

[jmspring]

EU passport through my wife's family.

[alpineman]

You are welcome in Europe, we need all the talent we can get :)

[retired]

I studied in The Netherlands about ten years ago and it was very cheap. Around €10k a year total for tuition, room and board. Most of my peers graduated with only €30k in debt as they worked evenings and weekends during their education. Meanwhile I read online about Americans going in debt for $200k