[christkv]

Unions at least in the European setting not really effective in protecting workers in the way people seem to imagine. The labor laws are somewhat but not really. It just increases the cost of getting rid of people and reduces mobility. So i don’t know what utopian view people have of unions but reality does not reflect that. It also leads to a salaried class of union representatives inside big companies that causes their own problems as they are the ones granting favors and benefits to their friends.

[chobeat]

Guess how those labor laws were achieved. Spoiler: unions. Same as weekends, 40-hour work week and so on. Strong unions win laws.

[christkv]

I don't dispute that unions were important and offer some sort of benefit. What I don't like is that most of the big unions in Europe receive a lot of governmental money and become lobbying groups for political parties. I would not consider them independent in any sense of the word.

[tremon]

But that's exactly what a union is: a lobbying group that strives for a better outcome on behalf of its members. "Independence" is not part of their job description. Why wouldn't they talk to politicians, or even publicly support the political parties that are more aligned with their goals? Or do you believe that is a privilege to be reserved only for the rich?

[christkv]

Sure be a lobbying group but without public funding. If your members can't be bothered to pay the cost of the union it can cease to exist.

[tremon]

In other words, yes you do believe that having direct access to politicians is a privilege to be reserved only for the rich.

[christkv]

No I believe that you should not be paid my tax money to run your politically motivated union. The members of the union should.

[Ylpertnodi]

As a union member - my union can fuck off. Dirty back-door deals, scratchy-back 'allowances', management collusion...

But, we went on strike, got a pay rise, my disciplinaries were found to be baseless, I got a pay rise they hid from us.

Swings and roundabouts, but I have got two people fired -it takes time, and it's done correctly. Or the law gets involved.

I'll take a shitty union over not.