[naturalmovement]

Do you also think Chinese selling counterfeit US postage stamps on eBay for 50% retail price (which is a major problem CBP and USPIS are fighting presently) is the free market at work?

This post is so delusional and dripping with condescension I've read it three times and I still can't figure out if you're trolling or not.

[bandrami]

Postage stamps have specific legal protection from duplication. The output of an LLM is not itself eligible for any legal IP protection.

[naturalmovement]

So it's a proxy.

Do you think you can re-stream cable TV or Netflix to your own paying customers at a cheaper price?

[bandrami]

If it's streaming an uncopyrightable product, absolutely. This isn't even a gray area.

I'm curious why you think you cannot re-stream a public domain stream.

[naturalmovement]

You're playing word games to justify something which is clearly ethically wrong.

You can't re-stream free over-the-air network TV.

That one company with the datacenter full of TV tuners tried and was sued out of existence.

[cycomanic]

If I understand your argument it's ethically ok to destill huge swathes of copyrighted work into a model without compensation, but then it is ethically wrong to use that model without compensation (well actually reduced pricing)?

I don't get the moral framework that you're applying. Could you elaborate?

[eloisius]

Over the air TV also isn’t public domain. It’s licensed to a station for broadcast. The output of an LLM has been deemed ineligible for copyright. Until you square that pickle your circle isn’t circling.

[bandrami]

Free over-the-air network TV is (generally) copyrighted.

The output of LLMs cannot be copyrighted. This isn't a semantic game; it's literally the case that Anthropic cannot seek relief for people duplicating the output of an LLM.

[eloisius]

With you, but I suppose they could have a case for circumventing access restrictions under the DMCA aka leet hacking.

[piva00]

Why is the ethical line specifically on model distillation for you?

Was it ethical for Anthropic/OpenAI to train their models by gobbling a treasure trove of copyrighted material?

[wqaatwt]

Using a bunch of nonsensical/irrelevant analogies to somehow make a point seems worse than these “word games”? What does streaming copyrighted content have to do with LLM outputs (which are public domain)?

[noncoml]

> clearly ethically wrong

Ethics are subjective. That’s why we have courts judge based on the law and not ethics

[achierius]

Post offices aren't meant to operate in the free market. More things should be like them.