[Zvez]

> Yes, horrible, but at what point does the consensus become that October 7 starts to look like a small event in light of the death toll on the other side

At the point when other side (free palestine and alike) start acknowledging it. Two wrongs don't make something right.

Start with teaching Palestine supporters that hamas is not the answer. And maybe, maybe after that people start seeing Palestine people as victims. Without it, most people will continue supporting Israel, not because they think that it does no wrong. But in comparison with hamas and their supporters Israel is lesser evil.

[hashstring]

> most people will continue supporting Israel

Your perspective is divorced from reality.

Across the 36 countries, a median of 67% of adults have an unfavorable view of Israel, while 25% have a favorable view [1].

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/06/04/most-peop...

[olelele]

To go back a long long while, the Israeli state was also founded by religious paramilitary organizations. Irgun et al.

Hamas IS the only organization to survive Israeli assasinations & internal conflict. Why is it there are no secular Palestinian groups left?

IMO Hamas / Netanyahu & the Kahanists are both the worst possible leadership on both sides.

The Kahanists literally murdered the Israeli prime minister for shaking hands w Arafat.

[lorecore]

> maybe after that people start seeing Palestine people as victims. Without it, most people will continue supporting Israel

Most of the world sees Palestinians as the victims and Zionists are very much the global minority. Hamas made that a reality, so I think they are the answer. I certainly support their resistance to Zionism, just like the Haitian slave revolt.

[kykeonaut]

In what world is 20,179 dead children the lesser of two evils?

[gershy]

The pro-israel argument is that hamas are almost entirely to blame for those numbers (as they use civilian infrastructure for war purposes)

[hardbass]

Almost all Israelis are IDF members, members of various intelligence and defense companies. If we plotted a map of a suitable attack radius around all valid combat targets in Israel, almost the entirety of their "civilian" regions would be covered.

[gershy]

The idf doesn't fight near civilian infrastructure - it deploys to the borders. Military bases in israel are far from civilian infrastructure. I think you're probably just wrong here.

[hardbass]

That's another fun one. Israel doesn't seem to mind launching missiles at non-serving non-military officers who are living in neutral countries like Qatar, and killing unrelated Qatari civilians in the process. So I would say by the same precedent, anyone has served or is serving in the IDF, which obviously would live in the cities as most of the population is a valid target.

[gershy]

I misunderstood your point earlier. Not that international law is necessarily always a valid philosophy we should accept, but international law does only consider people to be combatants if they're actively serving. Regardless of what international law says, I would argue that ethically, retired/non-serving army members should not be considered combatants or fair wartime targets (I think I mostly feel this way on the basis that targeting them causes civilian strife - e.g. the company they work for, family/community they support etc. is harmed - with zero war value). And I would say reservists are a more complicated case.

[manyaoman]

Start with teaching Israel supporters that IOF is not the answer. And maybe, maybe after that people start seeing Israelis as victims. Without it, most people will continue supporting Palestine, not because they think that it does no wrong. But in comparison with IOF and their supporters Palestine is lesser evil.

Fixed that for you.