[lokimedes]

Young energy shouldn’t be apologized. Apparently Bill Gates had that psycho energy too, Jobs and many others too. On a civilizational scale it seems like a net benefit that young, eager and driven people give a bit more than they wanted to in retrospect. It do indeed change things for the rest of us. The patriotic call of armed forces has been driven by this for millennia. At least Carmack and Co. chose their own missions, most soldiers are not so lucky.

[mikeocool]

I’m not sure it’s necessarily a given that what Jobs, Gates, and Carmack created are net-positives when talking on a civilizational scale.

Though Carmack certainly gets credit for keeping me entertained for a good portion of my youth.

And gates probably gets some civilizational credit for what he’s done with his wealth after he made it.

[lokimedes]

I’m sitting here in Denmark having been affected by these geeks. They may not have built the Pantheon, but surely they have channeled a group of people’s creativity towards something we have integrated into our society?

[mikeocool]

Not saying they didn't have an impact -- just that it's worth debating whether the impact is truly a net positive for society on a grand scale, particularly if we're going to give them a pass on less than stellar behavior.

Zuckerberg likely has similar tendencies, should he be given a pass for making social media such a large part of our society?

[ryandrake]

A lot of people on HN confuse "large impact" with "positive impact."

[MyHonestOpinon]

I am under the impression that a big part of the current AI progress is the result of the availability of chips that were created for gaming.

[mikeocool]

Also worth considering (and probably waiting and seeing) if the current AI progress is a net positive for society on the grand scale.

[spongebobstoes]

personal computing is inseparable from technological progress, and has been wildly positive for humanity

[Drupon]

>And gates probably gets some civilizational credit for what he’s done with his wealth after he made it.

Hang out with Epstein so much that he gave his wife and STD and then hid that knowledge from her, sneaking medicine to manage it into her food?

[Jtarii]

I think he is talking more about the malaria foundation.

[thaw13579]

That's literally treating people as means to an end, when it's not clear if the "end" even required sacrificing young people's lives. In the grand scheme of things, why not spend an extra year to build at a pace that doesn't burn people out? If you look at the careers of the people who subsequently left, by Sandy's account, they went on to to run their own great game studios, so it's not clear that a grind was necessary.

[lokimedes]

I have not reason to defend these people or their actions, but can we know their future success was not formed by their formative experiences at Id? I think we undervalue hardship and struggle as accelerants.

[nilirl]

Why not? What if it did bad?

[lokimedes]

At least it was just a game company :)

I find that initiative and grit combined is an exceedingly rare commodity, and it do power progress. We can always be picky about the worth or risks of the projects these souls end up realizing, but the function this provides to our society is critical.

[nilirl]

It's not being "picky" to those whose lives get worse.

How do you have such confidence for what works in a complex adaptive system?

Do you think society can be reduced to a model of functions and metrics?

You can only afford to use that model if it doesn't harm your experience of life. For many, it's a model that makes them invisible.

[Daishiman]

He's not apologizing for young energy. Young energy is a wonderful thing but without accompanying wisdom and restfulness for the vast majority of people is just spinning your wheels in place burning out and not achieving anything of importance.

[lokimedes]

Yeah. My point is that this is the double edged sword of youth vs. experience. We’ll never know if the world would have been better of Id software were managed by more tempered, middleaged people, but (since I was merely the gamer) I’d rather not risk it. That said, it is completely natural to reflect, as Carmack does, on what could have been different. I simply assume there’s a strong correlation between the result and the naivety of the people behind it.