[Aurornis]

> The only good thing is that an investor or an owner are not liable with their private money.

That’s incredibly important. More than a footnote. I would consider any other form to be non-viable if it doesn’t have such protections.

For comparison, starting an LLC in the United States is a trivial operation. I can’t even remember how long it took me to set mine up because it was a trivial event. Maybe a couple hours, mostly research? I also have to fill out an online form and pay a few dollars every year to renew the LLC.

[wongarsu]

Setting up a plain UG or GmbH gives the same advantage of not being liable with your private money, and is also a comparatively trivial process. Especially if you are the sole owner. Still slow compared to the US or UK, but not half a year slow

Starting out a company as a UG & Co KG is a tax optimization move, not a liability issue

[Aurornis]

> Starting out a company as a UG & Co KG is a tax optimization move, not a liability issue

Thanks for the clarification. However I’m still surprised that tax optimization is also considered a footnote in these conversations.

In the countries I’m familiar with (mostly the US, minor second-hand experience with friends in some other countries as they started their businesses) starting a limited liability business venture that has the tax structure of a business isn’t considered a heroic effort. Starting the business is basically the least of your concerns. Almost a formality.

[arjie]

When I first started my company I half assed it. The LLC was quick and the EIN took two weeks. I accidentally signed a contract with my name instead of the company and elected to be a sole proprietorship. These are all the worst ways tax-wise to do this.

By Nov that year I decided to look into the tax implications and they were unpleasant so I wrote the IRS asking to be considered an S corp from the beginning of the year and they sent me a letter saying it was so. I ran payroll in Dec to catch up.

When doing taxes likewise I added a cover letter explaining the mistake about which entity was to receive the money and then assigned the income to the S corp on the return and worked everything through and corrected it in the right way.

The return took months to process and I had a mistake in the taxes that I was fined for a couple thousand which was reasonable but they accepted all these natural errors that I fixed up.

That sequence of encounters with the US government blew my mind. The much maligned IRS was eminently reasonable.

[jandrewrogers]

My interactions with the IRS have always been reasonable and pragmatic. If you make a mistake they try to be accommodating to help you fix it.

[a34729t]

Every interaction Ive had with the IRS or California Franchise Tax Board has been very reasonable and efficient.

Maybe the Strike Commander future was a utopia and not dystopia?

[mpweiher]

The GmbH has the tax structure of a business, as it is a business.

He wanted something more special than that.

Which is possible, but complicated.

[fifafu]

You can get the same in Germany with the much simpler GmbH or UG. GmbH & Co. KG is much more complex and mostly used to save some taxes in some scenarios.

(However I absolutely agree that all of this is much too complicated and slow here in Germany)

[ExpertAdvisor01]

In Germany you need a notary in the us you don't.

[wongarsu]

The notary adds about a week to the process (2-3 hours of your time, plus the time to wait for the appointment), and about $1000 (depends on how much money you put in the company). And for "standard" setups you can skip the lawyer and simply use the templates and "free" legal advice from the notary (free as in "included in the notary fee you have to pay anyways")

Yes, it's more involved than an online form. But in the grand scheme of things, a notary is neither a huge expense (the tax advisor will likely cost you more) nor a big time sink

[nradov]

Why do Europeans put up with that notary nonsense? Ideally almost all notary jobs should be destroyed.

[moooo99]

> That’s incredibly important. More than a footnote. I would consider any other form to be non-viable if it doesn’t have such protections

That applies to a normal GmbH as well, so does it to an UG. UG & Co. KG is sometimes done for tax reasons, but not liability