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NSA lost access to Mythos amid Anthropic dispute (nytimes.com)
92 points by thm 7 hours ago
Unlocked: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/23/us/politics/nsa-lost-acce...
8 comments

If Mythos is still running internally, the NSA still have some access to it. It's just crazy to believe there aren't CIA and/or NSA plants (tacitly acknowledged or otherwise) inside Anthropic and OpenAI.

But Mythos is still only an advanced LLM so I am not sure what all this breathy fuss is about; it sounds like the PR war more than anything.

If the NSA aren't themselves training technologies that are at least as powerful, that would modestly surprise me.

Not that you need an LLM to monitor the risks to the USA. You just need Tulsi Gabbard's emails.

They could easily take the weights if they wanted. I don't believe they meaningfully lost access.
the success of mythos isn't from model weights, it's from the harness and toolset it has access to
But then, who will make them the next set of weights?
If they use the defence production act, would Dario be even able to resign in protest?
If they wanted to officially take the weights the DPA would work and Dario could do nothing. If they wanted to do it in clandestine manner no one could stop them and no one would know. It's very likely they already have all the weights from all the frontier models. I mean all the frontier models are capable of being served from AWS Bedrock so the weights aren't exactly locked in some air-gapped vault.

It would be easy to make a national security justification to take the weights in a clandestine manner especially because Anthropic supposedly got caught giving China access to the model through a cutout.

they are doing DOGE-cuts to all of intelligence now anyway

dozens upon dozens fired for no reason

so US "intelligence" is going to go even further backwards

* https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/trump-acting-ch...

November is going to be insanity

The NSA is managed by the NSA director, an independently appointed and confirmed office separate from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. The DNI does have the authority to restrict funds to the NSA, and sets certain priorities, policy, etc. but the NSA director is not beholden to the DNI and makes their hiring and firing decisions independently. They’re also, currently and historically though not required by statute, a flag officer in the US military and dual-hatted as the commander of CYBERCOM. All this is to say, chaos in the office of the DNI does not necessarily impact the NSA.
Here is one sector of the US government I'm happy to see burned down. If the alternative is the status quo, I'm OK with any roll of the dice.
It can always get worse.
Anecdata suggests NSA just got on board and kept going tbh. Not sure they’ve felt the same impacts / churn as other agencies, and not sure they’ve ever really been that beholden to the DNI.
> dozens upon dozens fired for no reason

When you say without reason do you mean without cause?

Seems to me OP's implication is that they were fired because someone wanted to hit a quota of (employees cut/payroll expenses reduced), or other similarly ''reasonless'' justifications.
Absolute clown show, wonderful for Anthropic to keep themselves in the news cycle yet again.
AI marketing bullshit stunts are unlike anything I've seen in 30 years. It started with MS Copilot so called capabilities for work, which were completely made up use cases that didn't work at all (3 years later still). We've had OpenAI "AGI is coming" and "AI will take your job", now we have Mythos being so "dangerous" for cybersecurity, which of course makes the average Joe interpret it as Anthropic being "the better overall company, the NSA uses it!!". I mean gov foes with Anthropic are probably true, but the marketing is to blame not Mythos capabilities. This is all so fucking pathetic
> and "AI will take your job"

Don't forget, its no longer cool to say that now that the public has pushed back. The fact they all changed their tone away from taking jobs tells you that it was all just entirely marketing.

I was able to identify, diagnose, fix, and upstream a minor bug in and erlang/OTP ssh key implementation with Opus in maybe 20 minutes (+2 weeks or so for upstream). It is not impossible that I could have done this before, but it would have taken days or weeks. The actual fix was about 2 lines of code, hardly AI slop, but getting there would have been quite the slog, and I never would have done it.

There is a lot of the reason for AI skepticism out there, but people tend to do massive overcorrections and underestimate the force multiplier it can be, particularly for people with some idea of what they're doing and a good grasp of how to take advantage of the tool.

We should seriously reframe this whole AI thing to "SI = simulated intelligence".

It's google in a box. Great achievement, makes knowledge work faster, but please stop bothering everyone else.

The Uber and Groupon people became billionaires, so the "Simulated Intelligence" folks will also achieve it. No need to worry and drown everyone in these bs stories only non-tech people believe.

Heh. In the Schlock Mercenary universe, "SI" means "synthetic intelligence", which is a level below real AI (which means what we would call AGI). And, as it says (in https://www.schlockmercenary.com/2003-07-21), SI translates to "kinda stupid".
All for a product that has yet to make a single honest dollar in profit for anyone who isn't nvidia.

When this goes we might well see a recession. Not that anyone responsible will be worse off, of course.

The perpetrators all have their golden parachutes. The taxpayers will foot the bill.
Doesn't make any sense. They could just force them to provide Mythos to the federal government.
> They could just force them to provide Mythos to the federal government

The DPA only gives that power to the President [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Production_Act_of_1950

Maybe GP was treating Trump to the royal "they"
doubt Trump would accept that pronoun
Which is a fundamental mistake to make with the U.S. government, even if we’re talking only about the executive branch, even if we’re only talking about DoD, even if we’re only talking about the IC.
The current position seems to be no-one has access, not even Anthropic employees. What powers does the US government have to force them to provide access? If they have that power why did they not use it to force them to provide their products for military use?
> What powers does the US government have to force them to provide access?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Production_Act_of_1950

This would not be a particularly big stretch here, either.

There is even a precedent for its use with regard to AI (only disclosing information, but still). Biden used it, why does Trump not do so?
Yeah... NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company (based on my reading/following of Snowden leaks and others). Anthropic wouldn't be able to exist without implicit NSA approval. This article reads more like a marketing piece for Anthropic/Mythos... and ends by talking about how much NSA wants Anthropic models.

Propaganda.

> NSA literally has MITM proxies/interception of any traffic they want inside every major US tech company

No, they don't.

How are they going to MITM communications with certs that never left my machine?

Are you suggesting they broke TLS or that they've somehow acquired every private cert generated?

You just intercept the traffic after its decrypted on the server side
It's back to the question of how much you should give the benefit of doubt to powerful people who openly lie.
It's just not technically feasible, so there's nothing to lie about. They're not MITMing petabytes/sec across dozens (hundreds?) of companies and they haven't broken TLS1.3.

If I have a box at Digital Ocean and I'm communicating with it with TLS1.3 using a Let's Encrypt cert that I generated, where, exactly, does this magical MITM box come into play?

Of course it's feasible, you just intercept the traffic post-decryption on the cloud/server side. You don't control how/where your traffic to 3p cloud services is decrypted.
bruh, it's not speculation. The secret NSA surveillance room in San Francisco is officially known as Room 641A. It is located inside an AT&T switching center at 611 Folsom Street (near 2nd Street) in the SoMa neighborhood. Who else occupied the building, Twitter was also located at 611 Folsom Street in San Francisco.The company leased a floor in the building (sharing space with retro platform Bebo) in 2009. This was their third office space, serving as their headquarters before they outgrew it and eventually relocated to Market Square at 1355 Market Street in 2012. The arab spring twitter uprising was fully a CIA/NSA operation.
> This was their third office space, serving as their headquarters before they outgrew it and eventually relocated to Market Square at 1355 Market Street in 2012. The arab spring twitter uprising was fully a CIA/NSA operation.

To be clear, the claim you're making is that because Twitter has their third corporate office in the same building as an AT&T switching center, and US intelligence used a room in AT&T's switching center for surveillance, then Twitter must have been controlled by US intelligence? And thus the Arab Spring uprising, where Twitter was used, was "fully a CIA/NSA operation"?

Yes, you have collected a lot of random bits of information from over a decade ago. I'm sure everything you say is still relevant today, especially the conspiracy nonsense.

Some of us actually work in security, while others think the NSA and CIA are some magically powerful orgs.

Explain how, even with the mystical Room 641A, the NSA can't break a TLS1.3 protected communication channel without either party knowing about it. Assume you have generated a cert with Let's Encrypt. How, exactly, does that work?

Explain to me how you are going to encrypt your LLM API calls with your let's encrypt cert.
Thank you.
Please provide sources for such bold claims
the NSA isn't a bunch of super soldiers, they're cops with too much access, it doesn't take a genius to outsmart a cop
You are correct, see the downvotes as a seal of approval by the propagandists.
> Propaganda

IPO incoming.

You misunderstand - the government issued a directive to Anthropic that effectively forced them to pull access from everyone, even their own employees.
The directive was to remove access to non-Americans, not to pull access from everyone. It’s because Anthropic cannot verify the identity of its users that it pulled access from everyone, not because the government explicitely requested that.
If their operation team is not US based that's going to be difficult to operate. They would have to reorganize the whole company as I'm pretty sure that they are not employing only US citizen.
>I'm pretty sure that they are not employing only US citizen

Understatement. They have 14 offices, only 4 of them are in the US (6 are in EMEA, 4 in APAC).

> directive was to remove access to non-Americans

Did Hegseth pull his supply-chain risk BS?

No - this was a separate power unrelated to the supply chain risk which is still in effect.
Probably not. The US constitution limits what government can force on the people. If the NSA tries to force something that will spend years in court (if anyone wants to fight)
> The US constitution limits what government can force on the people.

The US constitution also prohibits:

- refusing to spend money that congress has appropriated

- dismantling congressionally-created federal agencies without congressional authorization

- directing federal agencies to selectively apply the law according to the preference of the executive

- giving control of federal agencies to individuals who have not been appointed by the legislative branch

- terminating, detaining, or deporting people without due process

- retaliation against private citizens or corporations for speech protected under the first amendment

- discriminating on protected grounds under the equal protections clause

... and yet the administration has done all these things with impunity while effete judges wring their hands and write sternly-worded letters. The US constitution demonstrably no longer has any force or effect.

The constitution limits a lot of things that this administration has done regardless.
Misdirection
Kind of crazy actually. Other models are catching up fast, they all can find the vulnerabilities in our (and by our I mean everyone's) underlying infra very fast. It takes a very long time to fix, review, and finally deploy these fixes. There really isn't much time left.